Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[dholliday]

Distorting the truth indeed

So basically you agree with the poster you were trying to argue against

Dan didn't say anything, he just posts anti-Trump tweets he finds.

I've been calling for better-quality debate since the first Trump thread when he was just a candidate. Better debate results in less frustration & disbelief, more understanding & calm. This benefits everybody.

 

[Ruairi77]

Not necessarily no, but there's a debate there. Points to be scored, sure, but a debate nonetheless. Honestly I feel it's very important, especially for Americans, to think about the issues independently without leaning on someone else's soundbite. Otherwise the next 3 years will be hard work for you guys, and by extension for the rest of us too.

Most are.
A majority wanted to stay in the Paris accord, we were taken out.
A majority wanted to fix the ACA rather than scrapping it, didn't stop him trying to scrap it.
A majority want tighter gun restrictions but the NRA have him in their pocket
A majority don't want a wall built on the southern border, he's pressing on with it
A majority don't want tax cuts for the richest in the country, he does.
A majority don't want a Muslim ban, he does.
And on and on and on.
So yea, we're annoyed that he's a misogynistic racist but don't let that cloud your view that we aren't thinking about the individual issues, because we are.

 

[ilikecheese]

Most are.
A majority wanted to stay in the Paris accord, we were taken out.
A majority wanted to fix the ACA rather than scrapping it, didn't stop him trying to scrap it.
A majority want tighter gun restrictions but the NRA have him in their pocket
A majority don't want a wall built on the southern border, he's pressing on with it
A majority don't want tax cuts for the richest in the country, he does.
A majority don't want a Muslim ban, he does.
And on and on and on.
So yea, we're annoyed that he's a misogynistic racist but don't let that cloud your view that we aren't thinking about the individual issues, because we are.

It's almost like there's so much crap coming out of his mouth that it's almost impossible to talk about the issues. Perhaps that's his plan...put so much out there that it's simply too hard to keep up.

Like something as simple as his reactions to a Muslim attack compared to his rhetoric when a radicalized right winger commits a tragedy are so infuriating that we forget to focus on the actual policy damage he's doing to the country.

I live in hope that Mueller ends it.

 

[Pittsburgh Footy]

Say what you want about Vox, but this article hits the nail on the proverbial head about how most of us feel completely helpless against what's happening in this country

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis

 

[dholliday]

Most are.
A majority wanted to stay in the Paris accord, we were taken out.
A majority wanted to fix the ACA rather than scrapping it, didn't stop him trying to scrap it.
A majority want tighter gun restrictions but the NRA have him in their pocket
A majority don't want a wall built on the southern border, he's pressing on with it
A majority don't want tax cuts for the richest in the country, he does.
A majority don't want a Muslim ban, he does.
And on and on and on.
So yea, we're annoyed that he's a misogynistic racist but don't let that cloud your view that we aren't thinking about the individual issues, because we are.

When you say "a majority wanted", what do you mean? The American people generally?

Paris Accord: this won't be effective until almost the end of his term, it's almost certain the next Pres will apply to rejoin.

ACA: this looks like something which will change often, I can understand the desire to scrap and start over.

Gun control: 100% support outright ban of all private guns, but this radical solution will sadly never gain traction. Do you think there's any hope for meaningful gun control or is it too deeply-embedded in the culture?

Southern Wall: if there's a problem with illegal migrant waves, then a border fence or wall is a sensible idea. Long-term ideally you'd want to see US support Mexico improve itself but that's another minefield topic.

Tax cuts for top-rates: anything which would cut taxes for the low-earners gets my support. Not surprised Trump supports the top-earners, unfortunately.

Muslim ban: this is falsely-named, isn't it? The ban Trump actioned was a ban of travel from 7 countries on the high-risk terror watchlist. That these 7 countries are muslim-majority is an indication that there is a problem with islamic terrorism, which of course there is. Other muslim nations aren't part of the ban.

Mysogynist racist: agree he'll never live his boastful macho comment down, but otherwise his mysogynist reputation isn't that heavy. And racist is also debatable, tho' I'd agree his handling of black issues is at best immature & unhelpful.

 

[ilikecheese]

Say what you want about Vox, but this article hits the nail on the proverbial head about how most of us feel completely helpless against what's happening in this country

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/america-epistemic-crisis

I think Dan posted that the other day. It's a good piece.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Kusher really doing a great job with that whole peace in Middle East remit

 

[ilikecheese]

When you say "a majority wanted", what do you mean? The American people generally?

Paris Accord: this won't be effective until almost the end of his term, it's almost certain the next Pres will apply to rejoin.

ACA: this looks like something which will change often, I can understand the desire to scrap and start over.

Gun control: 100% support outright ban of all private guns, but this radical solution will sadly never gain traction. Do you think there's any hope for meaningful gun control or is it too deeply-embedded in the culture?

Southern Wall: if there's a problem with illegal migrant waves, then a border fence or wall is a sensible idea. Long-term ideally you'd want to see US support Mexico improve itself but that's another minefield topic.

Tax cuts for top-rates: anything which would cut taxes for the low-earners gets my support. Not surprised Trump supports the top-earners, unfortunately.

Muslim ban: this is falsely-named, isn't it? The ban Trump actioned was a ban of travel from 7 countries on the high-risk terror watchlist. That these 7 countries are muslim-majority is an indication that there is a problem with islamic terrorism, which of course there is. Other muslim nations aren't part of the ban.

Mysogynist racist: agree he'll never live his boastful macho comment down, but otherwise his mysogynist reputation isn't that heavy. And racist is also debatable, tho' I'd agree his handling of black issues is at best immature & unhelpful.

This was on Trump'a campaign website until the 8th of May this year. Words matter...

 

[Ruairi77]

When you say "a majority wanted", what do you mean? The American people generally?

Yup, the general US population.

Paris Accord: this won't be effective until almost the end of his term, it's almost certain the next Pres will apply to rejoin.
- Doesn't matter, a majority didn't want to leave. State budgets have to be altered to meet scrapped federal limits. It was a stupid decision driven by fossil fuel lobbyists.

ACA: this looks like something which will change often, I can understand the desire to scrap and start over.
- I'm no fan but like the majority, I don't want to see it replaced till theres a viable alternative.

Gun control: 100% support outright ban of all private guns, but this radical solution will sadly never gain traction. Do you think there's any hope for meaningful gun control or is it too deeply-embedded in the culture?
- Of course there's hope. The majority want background checks, limits on clip sizes, bans on bump stocks. I don't think there'll ever be a ban on private gun ownership. I'm not sure even I'd be for that but I can see bans on the likes of the AR-15.

Southern Wall: if there's a problem with illegal migrant waves, then a border fence or wall is a sensible idea. Long-term ideally you'd want to see US support Mexico improve itself but that's another minefield topic.
- Most undocumented enter through airports, they overstay visas. The wall won't slow the drug trade either, it's an expensive visual stunt to keep is dumb base satisfied (yea, I called them dumb, I'm not looking to win these people over)

Tax cuts for top-rates: anything which would cut taxes for the low-earners gets my support. Not surprised Trump supports the top-earners, unfortunately.
- Youre with the majority there

Muslim ban: this is falsely-named, isn't it? The ban Trump actioned was a ban of travel from 7 countries on the high-risk terror watchlist. That these 7 countries are muslim-majority is an indication that there is a problem with islamic terrorism, which of course there is. Other muslim nations aren't part of the ban.
- And it keeps getting thrown out in court because he said he wanted a complete ban on all Muslims entering the country (again showboating to his dumb base)

Mysogynist racist: agree he'll never live his boastful macho comment down, but otherwise his mysogynist reputation isn't that heavy. And racist is also debatable, tho' I'd agree his handling of black issues is at best immature & unhelpful.
- There's years of evidence to prove that you're taking this way to lightly, not going to go into it now.

Mate, honestly, the case for trump is paper thin. People are outraged because the whole situation is outrageous.

 

[dholliday]

This was on Trump'a campaign website until the 8th of May this year. Words matter...

To be honest, it is stupidly-nonsensical to think banning all Muslims will save significant lives when you consider how many Americans die from guns & meds.

Yup, the general US population.

Paris Accord: this won't be effective until almost the end of his term, it's almost certain the next Pres will apply to rejoin.
- Doesn't matter, a majority didn't want to leave. State budgets have to be altered to meet scrapped federal limits. It was a stupid decision driven by fossil fuel lobbyists.

ACA: this looks like something which will change often, I can understand the desire to scrap and start over.
- I'm no fan but like the majority, I don't want to see it replaced till theres a viable alternative.

Gun control: 100% support outright ban of all private guns, but this radical solution will sadly never gain traction. Do you think there's any hope for meaningful gun control or is it too deeply-embedded in the culture?
- Of course there's hope. The majority want background checks, limits on clip sizes, bans on bump stocks. I don't think there'll ever be a ban on private gun ownership. I'm not sure even I'd be for that but I can see bans on the likes of the AR-15.

Southern Wall: if there's a problem with illegal migrant waves, then a border fence or wall is a sensible idea. Long-term ideally you'd want to see US support Mexico improve itself but that's another minefield topic.
- Most undocumented enter through airports, they overstay visas. The wall won't slow the drug trade either, it's an expensive visual stunt to keep is dumb base satisfied (yea, I called them dumb, I'm not looking to win these people over)

Tax cuts for top-rates: anything which would cut taxes for the low-earners gets my support. Not surprised Trump supports the top-earners, unfortunately.
- Youre with the majority there

Muslim ban: this is falsely-named, isn't it? The ban Trump actioned was a ban of travel from 7 countries on the high-risk terror watchlist. That these 7 countries are muslim-majority is an indication that there is a problem with islamic terrorism, which of course there is. Other muslim nations aren't part of the ban.
- And it keeps getting thrown out in court because he said he wanted a complete ban on all Muslims entering the country (again showboating to his dumb base)

Mysogynist racist: agree he'll never live his boastful macho comment down, but otherwise his mysogynist reputation isn't that heavy. And racist is also debatable, tho' I'd agree his handling of black issues is at best immature & unhelpful.
- There's years of evidence to prove that you're taking this way to lightly, not going to go into it now.

Mate, honestly, the case for trump is paper thin. People are outraged because the whole situation is outrageous.

Interesting replies.

From your perspective has it been all bad or is he and his administration doing good work in other areas?

 

[Ruairi77]

To be honest, it is stupidly-nonsensical to think banning all Muslims will save significant lives when you consider how many Americans die from guns & meds.


Interesting replies.

From your perspective has it been all bad or is he and his administration doing good work in other areas?

I can see the appeal in simplifying the tax code as well as reducing corporate tax, I just don't like the way he plans to pay (or not) for the cuts
I liked the way he talked to schumer and pelosi to try and broker a deal. My main hope for him was that he'd operate above party politics. Turns out he's probably the most partisan president ever

Round about way of saying no, not really

 

[LinekersLegs]

He loves autocrats, due process is anathema to him.

 

[LinekersLegs]

lol

 

[verreauxi]

Mysogynist racist: agree he'll never live his boastful macho comment down, but otherwise his mysogynist reputation isn't that heavy. And racist is also debatable, tho' I'd agree his handling of black issues is at best immature & unhelpful.

I personally don't feel Trump's racism is debatable. Awhile back I posted this below (in italics), and it was only a sample of what I found. In retrospect, I think the more general point is that Trump has no compassion for anyone. It's like he's so far gone as a functioning human (he has narcissistic personality disorder, as you probably know), that I don't really question his racism (which is empirically documented) or his sexism (which is empirically documented) or his xenophobia (which is empirically documented)--it's more that I just question his general ability to get along with others, period. You are being way to cautious and apologetic when you say his comments regarding non-whites are "immature & unhelpful." He is a racist.

--he has called all Mexicans rapists
--he's referred to black people in Baltimore as Thugs
--he's appointed Jeff Sessions, who was denied a Federal Judge position due to comments such as calling a white civil rights lawyer a "race traitor" and making sympathetic jokes about the KKK
--he's appointed Steve Bannon, who has claimed Briebart was the platform of the alt-right
--he's claimed a judge was biased due to being "Mexican"
--he's attacked the Muslim parents of US Army officer who was KIA
--he's been sued by the Justice Department for not renting to black people (note added: twice)
--he said that quotes attributed to him--that black people were inherently lazy, that black people shouldn't be counting his Casino money--were "probably true"
--he questioned whether Obama was an American
--he said of the Pequots, that they "don't look like Indians to me..."
--he condoned the beating of a BLM supporter, saying "Maybe [the protester] should have been roughed up"
--when two men were convicted of beating up a homeless Latino and citing Trump as their inspiration, Trump said in response to these attacks, “I will say that people who are following me are very passionate...They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”

 

[ilikecheese]

I personally don't feel Trump's racism is debatable. Awhile back I posted this below (in italics), and it was only a sample of what I found. In retrospect, I think the more general point is that Trump has no compassion for anyone. It's like he's so far gone as a functioning human (he has narcissistic personality disorder, as you probably know), that I don't really question his racism (which is empirically documented) or his sexism (which is empirically documented) or his xenophobia (which is empirically documented)--it's more that I just question his general ability to get along with others, period. You are being way to cautious and apologetic when you say his comments regarding non-whites are "immature & unhelpful." He is a racist.

--he has called all Mexicans rapists
--he's referred to black people in Baltimore as Thugs
--he's appointed Jeff Sessions, who was denied a Federal Judge position due to comments such as calling a white civil rights lawyer a "race traitor" and making sympathetic jokes about the KKK
--he's appointed Steve Bannon, who has claimed Briebart was the platform of the alt-right
--he's claimed a judge was biased due to being "Mexican"
--he's attacked the Muslim parents of US Army officer who was KIA
--he's been sued by the Justice Department for not renting to black people (note added: twice)
--he said that quotes attributed to him--that black people were inherently lazy, that black people shouldn't be counting his Casino money--were "probably true"
--he questioned whether Obama was an American
--he said of the Pequots, that they "don't look like Indians to me..."
--he condoned the beating of a BLM supporter, saying "Maybe [the protester] should have been roughed up"
--when two men were convicted of beating up a homeless Latino and citing Trump as their inspiration, Trump said in response to these attacks, “I will say that people who are following me are very passionate...They love this country and they want this country to be great again. They are passionate.”

Let's not forget the empowerment he gave white supremecists after Charlottesville.