Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[abelard]

Hi! I am not here on pete's side or Trump in general (my posting history can easily confirm this) I am just here to clear up misconceptions.

Facilities deep in mountains are no problem at all. The SLBM MIRV's are designed to cope with that. The basic doctrine is the first MIRV penetrates before detonating, followed by a second MIRV a few blinks later for hardened, buried target destruction.

that assumes we know where they all are - but we don't even know how many they have, led alone where they might all be positioned. and my understanding is that they also have mobile launchers - unless you can confirm that's not the case.

anyways, to be clear, the idea of making North Korea simply cease to exist is nothing but an idle fantasy, and in any case, their conventional means of retaliation are they can hit back with is more than bad enough:

"If the US is worried North Korea might make the first move, though, it could launch a preemptive surgical strike on North Korea. It would certainly do damage to the country’s missile and nuclear programs. But North Korea would retaliate, imperiling the safety of US allies South Korea and Japan.

Pyongyang has the world’s largest artillery arsenal at its disposal, with around 8,000 rocket launchers and artillery cannons on its side of the demilitarized zone between the North and South, and it could use that arsenal to strike the major capital of Seoul. It could also use its short-range missiles to strike Tokyo and other large Japanese urban areas, some of them with only about a 10-minute warning.

But a fight between the North and South would be bad enough. Simulations of a large-scale artillery fight produce pretty bleak results. One war game convened by the Atlantic back in 2005 predicted that a North Korean attack would kill 100,000 people in Seoul in the first few days alone. Others put the estimate even higher. A war game mentioned by the National Interest predicted Seoul could “be hit by over half-a-million shells in under an hour.” Those results don’t bode well for one of Washington’s closest allies, or for the 25.6 million people living in Seoul.

None of this even factors in the large-scale refugee crisis that a war would create, where millions would flock north to China as their homes and livelihoods are ravaged by war. That’s something China expressly does not want. Beijing prioritizes stability on the peninsula, and it helps explain why it has been so unwilling to alter the status quo in North Korea. Any change, China fears, may lead to problems for the Chinese government down the road.

Here’s the end result, according to my colleague Zack Beauchamp: “Given North Korea’s massive conventional military and unknown number of nuclear weapons, conflict on the Korean Peninsula would cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives.”

So a surgical strike may have risks because of what North Korea might do. It’s also a risk because the strike itself may not work as planned.

The reason for that is many of North Korea’s nuclear sites are underground or in caves. Plus, the US and its partners are unsure where many of the dozens of missiles that would carry a nuclear weapon are. Some are hidden away and others are on mobile launchers that could be moved if North Korea sensed an attack was coming. Either way, special operations forces would likely be on the ground in North Korea, conducting risky military maneuvers — putting themselves in harm’s way."

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/6/15922824/trump-north-korea-icbm-options-bad

Vox again, another time-travel vote for Trump ; )

 

[SerenityNigh]

 

[abelard]

Even a stopped clock...

Trolling libs is all fun and games, until inevitably, there's a crisis. Concerns about leadership and character don't seem quite so shrill then.

Just a reminder: Trump, and Trump alone, has the authority to launch a nuclear strike. There is nobody with the legal means of stopping it.

He's quite possibly going through the early stages of dementia. And even between two entirely rational adversaries, with nukes, it only takes one miscalculation or miscommunication.

Still feeling better with him at the button? Anyone?

 

[Dylan]

that assumes we know where they all are - but we don't even know how many they have, led alone where they might all be positioned. and my understanding is that they also have mobile launchers - unless you can confirm that's not the case.

anyways, to be clear, the idea of making North Korea simply cease to exist is nothing but an idle fantasy, and in any case, their conventional means of retaliation are they can hit back with is more than bad enough:

"If the US is worried North Korea might make the first move, though, it could launch a preemptive surgical strike on North Korea. It would certainly do damage to the country’s missile and nuclear programs. But North Korea would retaliate, imperiling the safety of US allies South Korea and Japan.

Pyongyang has the world’s largest artillery arsenal at its disposal, with around 8,000 rocket launchers and artillery cannons on its side of the demilitarized zone between the North and South, and it could use that arsenal to strike the major capital of Seoul. It could also use its short-range missiles to strike Tokyo and other large Japanese urban areas, some of them with only about a 10-minute warning.

But a fight between the North and South would be bad enough. Simulations of a large-scale artillery fight produce pretty bleak results. One war game convened by the Atlantic back in 2005 predicted that a North Korean attack would kill 100,000 people in Seoul in the first few days alone. Others put the estimate even higher. A war game mentioned by the National Interest predicted Seoul could “be hit by over half-a-million shells in under an hour.” Those results don’t bode well for one of Washington’s closest allies, or for the 25.6 million people living in Seoul.

None of this even factors in the large-scale refugee crisis that a war would create, where millions would flock north to China as their homes and livelihoods are ravaged by war. That’s something China expressly does not want. Beijing prioritizes stability on the peninsula, and it helps explain why it has been so unwilling to alter the status quo in North Korea. Any change, China fears, may lead to problems for the Chinese government down the road.

Here’s the end result, according to my colleague Zack Beauchamp: “Given North Korea’s massive conventional military and unknown number of nuclear weapons, conflict on the Korean Peninsula would cost hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives.”

So a surgical strike may have risks because of what North Korea might do. It’s also a risk because the strike itself may not work as planned.

The reason for that is many of North Korea’s nuclear sites are underground or in caves. Plus, the US and its partners are unsure where many of the dozens of missiles that would carry a nuclear weapon are. Some are hidden away and others are on mobile launchers that could be moved if North Korea sensed an attack was coming. Either way, special operations forces would likely be on the ground in North Korea, conducting risky military maneuvers — putting themselves in harm’s way."

https://www.vox.com/world/2017/7/6/15922824/trump-north-korea-icbm-options-bad

Vox again, another time-travel vote for Trump ; )

Sorry, I wasn't arguing your point, I was just letting you know that if we select hardened, underground targets, they are well within our operational capability.

 

[Connor]

Unreal: https://twitter.com/i/moments/895000975764856832

Trump gets a folder of positive news about himself twice a day: VICE News
Politics

The daily folder contains screenshots of positive cable news coverage, favourable Tweets, transcripts of TV interviews and news stories praising him and sometimes "just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful," VICE reported.

By Alex Thompson

Twice a day since the beginning of the Trump administration, a special folder is prepared for the president. The first document is prepared around 9:30 a.m. and the follow-up, around 4:30 p.m. Former Chief of Staff Reince Priebus and former Press Secretary Sean Spicer both wanted the privilege of delivering the 20-to-25-page packet to President Trump personally, White House sources say.

These sensitive papers, described to VICE News by three current and former White House officials, don’t contain top-secret intelligence or updates on legislative initiatives. Instead, the folders are filled with screenshots of positive cable news chyrons (those lower-third headlines and crawls), admiring tweets, transcripts of fawning TV interviews, praise-filled news stories, and sometimes just pictures of Trump on TV looking powerful.

One White House official said the only feedback the White House communications shop, which prepares the folder, has ever gotten in all these months is: “It needs to be more 'kin positive.” That’s why some in the White House ruefully refer to the packet as “the propaganda document.”

The process of assembling the folder begins at the Republican National Committee’s “war room,” which has expanded from 4 to 10 people since the GOP won the White House. A war room — both parties have one regardless of who’s in the White House — is often tasked with monitoring local and national news, cable television, social media, digital media, and print media to see how the party, its candidates or their opponents are being perceived.

Beginning at 6 a.m. every weekday — the early start is a longtime war room tradition — three staffers arrive at the RNC to begin monitoring the morning shows on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News as they scour the internet and newspapers. Every 30 minutes or so, the staffers send the White House Communications Office an email with chyron screenshots, tweets, news stories, and interview transcripts.

White House staffers then cull the information, send out clips to other officials, and push favorable headlines to a list of journalists. But they also pick out the most positive bits to give to the president. On days when there aren’t enough positive chyrons, communications staffers will ask the RNC staffers for flattering photos of the president.

“Maybe it’s good for the country that the president is in a good mood in the morning,” one former RNC official said.

Contacted by VICE News, Spicer disputed the nature of the folder. “While I won’t comment on materials we share with the president, this is not accurate on several levels,” he said in an email. Asked what about the story was inaccurate, Spicer did not respond.

Of course, every White House monitors media coverage to see how they’re being covered, and the RNC may have decided more staff was needed after the party won the White House. As the political media environment has become faster-moving and more frenzied, the efforts to follow it have also become more robust. The Obama White House usually had at least one very caffeinated point person and two others dedicated to watching Twitter, online publications, print media, and cable news, and then compile relevant clips and send them around to White House aides.

But the production of a folder with just positive news — and the use of the RNC to help produce it — seemed abnormal to former White House officials. “If we had prepared such a digest for Obama, he would have roared with laughter,” said David Axelrod, the senior adviser to Barack Obama during his first two years in the White House. “His was a reality-based presidency.”

“The RNC is always going to work to defend the White House, the administration, and its members of Congress, and our war room’s efforts help capture and drive how our team can echo that defense,” said RNC spokeswoman Lindsay Jancek.

Another current White House official said that the idea for the twice-daily ego boost came from Priebus and Spicer, who competed to deliver the folder and be the bearer of the good news. “Priebus and Spicer weren’t in a good position, and they wanted to show they could provide positive coverage,” the official said. “It was self-preservation.”

In the two-plus weeks following the departure of both Spicer and Priebus, White House officials say, the document has been produced less frequently and more typically after public events, such as Trump’s recent speech at the National Boy Scouts Jamboree in West Virginia. It’s unclear what will change, if anything, once a new White House communications director is appointed to replace the briefly tenured Anthony Scaramucci.

It’s not the first recorded instance of Trump welcoming excessive flattery.

He frequently cites or thanks cable television hosts like Sean Hannity, Lou Dobbs, and the hosts of “Fox & Friends” who cover his presidency more favorably.

And at a broadcasted Cabinet meeting in June, Trump listened contentedly as the vice president, his chief of staff, and nearly all of the 15 Cabinet secretaries heaped praise on him. Priebus took that opportunity to tell Trump: “On behalf of the entire senior staff around you, Mr. President, we thank you for the opportunity and the blessing that you’ve given us to serve your agenda and the American people.”

 

[SerenityNigh]

Even a stopped clock...

Trolling libs is all fun and games, until inevitably, there's a crisis. Concerns about leadership and character don't seem quite so shrill then.

Just a reminder: Trump, and Trump alone, has the authority to launch a nuclear strike. There is nobody with the legal means of stopping it.

He's quite possibly going through the early stages of dementia. And even between two entirely rational adversaries, with nukes, it only takes one miscalculation or miscommunication.

Still feeling better with him at the button? Anyone?

 

[ToffeeDan]

Nuclear war to save my presidency... what Dump is really thinking.

 

[Blue 1]

Not once during Obama's presidency did I go to bed wondering if nuclear war was a possibility.

Just sayin', like.

 

[peteblue]

Not once during Obama's presidency did I go to bed wondering if nuclear war was a possibility.

Just sayin', like.

Chamberlain

Obama

 

[degsy]

The Chinese are, in theory, in some sort of position to tell their mates to pull their heads in.
Who (that he might listen to) is going to tell soft lad?

edit; Those same Chinese??

#duck and cover

 

[PhilM]

They now have a few, not many, nuclear devices, it will only get worse the longer they delay. Decisions will have to be made and acted upon. Tonight's threat against Guam really doesn't help........

Merely playing Devil's advocate here, as North Korea are a different kettle of fish, but there's numerous other countries who have nuclear arsenals.

These countries have also been involved in a number of quite seriously precarious situations with other nations: India, Pakistan and Israel etc.

Yet, they have never reached the final climax. Could the actual threat level be much lower whereas we're simply seeing a game of political rhetoric?

 

[davek]

This man endangers us all.

It needs to be stopped.

 

[zandvoort blue]

The Pentagon is confident is has averted Armageddon after fitting a childproof lock to the nuclear launch button in the Oval Office

 

[peteblue]

Merely playing Devil's advocate here, as North Korea are a different kettle of fish, but there's numerous other countries who have nuclear arsenals.

These countries have also been involved in a number of quite seriously precarious situations with other nations: India, Pakistan and Israel etc.

Yet, they have never reached the final climax. Could the actual threat level be much lower whereas we're simply seeing a game of political rhetoric?

They tend to have elected leaders, or at least a party that would not be so stupid as to continually promise to bomb the USA. While this is, as you say, mostly political rhetoric, it is an issue that is long overdue a resolution as it is causing clear concern to NK's neighbours. The Japanese will be having serious thoughts about their own nuclear defence and this in turn would concern China and Russia. The snowball effect could be horrendous, not today but ten years from now. Kim is being an idiot by making threats to the USA and virtually inviting an incident. The USA won't be goaded just by words, but if an incident occurred then Trump would have his opportunity and everyone will just stand back and see what happens. The scandal in all of this however is that if Kim were removed, this issue would probably go away......

 

[peteblue]

This man endangers us all.

It needs to be stopped.

I hope you are referring to Kim. Trump may be an idiot but the USA can deal with him, Kim on the other hand can pretty well do whatever he wants and kill any of his people who disagree.......