Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[RaleighBlue]

I find it odd that the hatred of Donald Trump makes certain people take the opposing view of his on any subject, even if it makes no sense to do so.

This is a prime example. Trump says China caused the virus, so anti Trump people will go out of their way to say they didn't.

Because political tribalism is a thing.

I find that post bizarre mate, really do. What China did was a textbook example of negligence and I can't fathom why people would argue otherwise.

China is a country.

A virus is a biological piece of information.

China did not cause the virus. To say they did is absurd. They didn't even *cause* the pandemic.

To say they participated in practices that allowed for a potential pandemic to occur is more accurate. But if that's the bar, many other places could be pulled up for various reasons that raise risks. Swine flu arose in the US, and I can promise some of our factory farming conditions could lead to issues, as could some of our larger homeless populations (thinking how LA has 40k homeless, with like 4k in one neighborhood).

Blaming nations at this stage is political posturing. Which is fine on message boards - feel free, obviously. But coming from the president is not ideal. Basically, we're literally dying by the thousands and the man is busy blaming a nation for a nasty trick of evolution.

 

[Tubey]

Yes mate I'm aware.

You've also not addressed the part where MERS had nothing to do with these.

Because it's irrelevant to the point about Chinese negligence. MERS was probably more a bushmeat issue. Of course there is a chance of any virus originating anywhere, but there is no example of a nation state directly facilitating the conditions for such a virus to be born other than in China and any other state that has the wet market trade.

Let me give an analogy. Say there was a workplace and someone was nearly electrocuted by a loose wire hanging down from the ceiling, and the company was told it could have killed someone. The company then leaves that loose wire in place. It then goes on to kill someone.

That's negligence. In the same way, due to the warning of SARS, where China closed the wet markets briefly and very clearly knew the issue, then they are negligent and through their actions directly facilitated the arrival of this virus. They are directly responsible for it. There is simply no denying it.

 

[Tubey]

No, people criticized trump for blaming it on China and calling it the Chinese virus because apportioning blame during the crisis would and did just lead to the stigmatization of Asian Americans.
Wait till we have this thing under control before sucking up attention blaming others.
trump is looking for a scapegoat.
it’s not political tribalism to oppose trump, it’s common sense.

For me, calling it the Chinese Virus is crude but accurate. If a few people fall victim to idiots but the end result is massive political pressure on those communist idiots to get their house in order, then it's a price worth paying.

The whole world should be shunning China right now. Every country. Because what they did was inexcusable. I have zero issue with Trump shining a light on something which has directly caused this misery.

 

[Tubey]

China is a country.

A virus is a biological piece of information.

China did not cause the virus. To say they did is absurd. They didn't even *cause* the pandemic.

Complete and total nonsense.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Because it's irrelevant to the point about Chinese negligence. MERS was probably more a bushmeat issue. Of course there is a chance of any virus originating anywhere, but there is no example of a nation state directly facilitating the conditions for such a virus to be born other than in China and any other state that has the wet market trade.

Let me give an analogy. Say there was a workplace and someone was nearly electrocuted by a loose wire hanging down from the ceiling, and the company was told it could have killed someone. The company then leaves that loose wire in place. It then goes on to kill someone.

That's negligence. In the same way, due to the warning of SARS, where China closed the wet markets briefly and very clearly knew the issue, then they are negligent and through their actions directly facilitated the arrival of this virus. They are directly responsible for it. There is simply no denying it.

And while I go along with most of that, I don't feel like holding them responsible by reaming them when this all ends is the right move. It isn't going to do any good long term.

 

[Tubey]

And while I go along with most of that, I don't feel like holding them responsible by reaming them when this all ends is the right move. It isn't going to do any good long term.

Then your alternative is what, doing nothing and allowing the wet markets to continue?

 

[TheBigIguana]

Then your alternative is what, doing nothing and allowing the wet markets to continue?

I'd genuinely just push them to close them and nothing more if they agree. If they don't maybe sanctions and the like but I wouldn't go crazy.

You're out here talking reparations. The US would be the ones to seek reparations for something before paying them out for their crimes first to be fair, but that would be some shameful stuff.

 

[Tubey]

I'd genuinely just push them to close them and nothing more if they agree. If they don't maybe sanctions and the like but I wouldn't go crazy.

Great - here's how that goes.

Australia pressures WHO after it backed reopening China's wet markets

Prime Minister Scott Morrison demanded transparency in understanding the origin of the disease and protection from the global threat of China's notorious open marketplaces.

www.dailymail.co.uk

China ignores you and the WHO falls meekly in line.

China listens to nothing except strength - collective strength. The WHO is not prepared to go against them, China won't do anything, so Trump is 100% right to call them both out on it.

It doesn't matter what Trump's motive is if the greater good of what he does is that action is taken against a global threat. And that's what the wet markets are - undeniably. What we're going through now is all the proof you need.

Your second paragraph again just shows a bizarre political slant on your views. I am absolutely no fan of Trump, but I'm able to be rational and recognise when he's obviously right.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Great - here's how that goes.

Australia pressures WHO after it backed reopening China's wet markets

Prime Minister Scott Morrison demanded transparency in understanding the origin of the disease and protection from the global threat of China's notorious open marketplaces.

www.dailymail.co.uk

China ignores you and the WHO falls meekly in line.

China listens to nothing except strength - collective strength. The WHO is not prepared to go against them, China won't do anything, so Trump is 100% right to call them both out on it.

It doesn't matter what Trump's motive is if the greater good of what he does is that action is taken against a global threat. And that's what the wet markets are - undeniably. What we're going through now is all the proof you need.

Your second paragraph again just shows a bizarre political slant on your views. I am absolutely no fan of Trump, but I'm able to be rational and recognise when he's obviously right.

I don't think heavily punishing China in what looks odds on to be the middle of an economic crisis is "obviously right." There are negatives to it.

I don't know enough about the WHO. Plenty of people seem willing to pile on them but there has to be something to them right? Or are they FIFA level corrupt? Genuinely asking.

There's nothing bizarre about saying the US probably shouldn't be asking for reparations when we haven't made right for our own crimes. If you'd seen a reservation or an inner city neighborhood ravaged by systemic racism you'd see that clearer I'm sure. Our government going out and asking China to pay up for mistakes when we refuse to do so is the height of hypocrisy.

 

[Tubey]

I don't think heavily punishing China in what looks odds on to be the middle of an economic crisis is "obviously right." There are negatives to it.

I don't know enough about the WHO. Plenty of people seem willing to pile on them but there has to be something to them right? Or are they FIFA level corrupt? Genuinely asking.

There's nothing bizarre about saying the US probably shouldn't be asking for reparations when we haven't made right for our own crimes. If you'd seen a reservation or an inner city neighborhood ravaged by systemic racism you'd see that clearer I'm sure. Our government going out and asking China to pay up for mistakes when we refuse to do so is the height of hypocrisy.

The bold bit basically.

Hilariously, one of their first press conferences on this was alongside FIFA announcing a funding campaign from football. Couldn't script it.

Who We Are - News - Five steps to kicking out coronavirus - FIFA.com

Who We Are - News

www.fifa.com

It's a combination of corruption from the higher ups and a lack of teeth or will to use the teeth they have which makes them largely pointless. So corrupt AND useless. A health-based League of Nations.

How the World Health Organisation’s failure to challenge China over coronavirus cost us dearly

The international body blithely accepted Beijing’s assurances that there was little to worry about.

www.newstatesman.com

As for reparations, you're missing my point. The fact China only listen to collective strength means that if nations were united in holding them correctly accountable for this, then by threatening demands for reparations, trade embargoes - basically being cast off into a political wilderness - then you have a greater chance of enacting change.

Unlike factory farming, which feeds the world whether we like it or not, wet markets are relatively easy to abolish and feed a very niche market that can be replaced. China allows it to happen due to complacency and profit, nothing more. With factory farming, we have health and safety standards, so whilst yes a disease is possible to arrive from such conditions (such as Swine Flu from Mexico) it is unlikely and precautions have been put in place - Chinese wet markets do not and indeed cannot have such precautions by their very nature. They need to be abolished.

This video sums it up for me.



This is about a bigger issue than Trump. I'd ask people to not let blind hatred of Trump blind them to a big problem. China - despite having warnings about this - allowed a killer virus to be born through their own negligence. They need to be held to account.

 

[LinekersLegs]

For me, calling it the Chinese Virus is crude but accurate. If a few people fall victim to idiots but the end result is massive political pressure on those communist idiots to get their house in order, then it's a price worth paying.

The whole world should be shunning China right now. Every country. Because what they did was inexcusable. I have zero issue with Trump shining a light on something which has directly caused this misery.

Pretty easy to say that when you aren’t one of the people paying tbf.

And I don’t see why you have to label coronavirus the “Chinese virus” to generate political pressure, in fact I’d argue it is actively counterproductive as it leads to charges of a racial ulterior motive rather than one due the abhorrent conditions in the wet markets and the Chinese governments secrecy both in the early stages and now in allowing investigation of the outbreak origins.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The bold bit basically.

Hilariously, one of their first press conferences on this was alongside FIFA announcing a funding campaign from football. Couldn't script it.

Who We Are - News - Five steps to kicking out coronavirus - FIFA.com

Who We Are - News

www.fifa.com

It's a combination of corruption from the higher ups and a lack of teeth or will to use the teeth they have which makes them largely pointless. So corrupt AND useless. A health-based League of Nations.

How the World Health Organisation’s failure to challenge China over coronavirus cost us dearly

The international body blithely accepted Beijing’s assurances that there was little to worry about.

www.newstatesman.com

As for reparations, you're missing my point. The fact China only listen to collective strength means that if nations were united in holding them correctly accountable for this, then by threatening demands for reparations, trade embargoes - basically being cast off into a political wilderness - then you have a greater chance of enacting change.

Unlike factory farming, which feeds the world whether we like it or not, wet markets are relatively easy to abolish and feed a very niche market that can be replaced. China allows it to happen due to complacency and profit, nothing more. With factory farming, we have health and safety standards, so whilst yes a disease is possible to arrive from such conditions (such as Swine Flu from Mexico) it is unlikely and precautions have been put in place - Chinese wet markets do not and indeed cannot have such precautions by their very nature. They need to be abolished.

This video sums it up for me.



This is about a bigger issue than Trump. I'd ask people to not let blind hatred of Trump blind them to a big problem. China - despite having warnings about this - allowed a killer virus to be born through their own negligence. They need to be held to account.

I mean again the problem is the wet markets so instead of getting all dramatic I'd simply get a coalition of nations to push very hard for them to be shut down. That's really the end of what needs to be done, and you're talking about threats and alienation and such.

And I'm not really missing your point as much as making a separate one that the US is a giant gang of hypocrites who wouldn't have a leg to stand on if China were interested in fighting back.

With the WHO, I don't really know what to do because it feels like they should have important functions, so just shuttering it isn't an ideal thing.

 

[Tubey]

Pretty easy to say that when you aren’t one of the people paying tbf.

And I don’t see why you have to label coronavirus the “Chinese virus” to generate political pressure, in fact I’d argue it is actively counterproductive as it leads to charges of a racial ulterior motive rather than one due the abhorrent conditions in the wet markets and the Chinese governments secrecy.

Because people are stupid. Collectively rather than individually. They need a very obvious, key message, repeated over and over again, for it to have any impact.

Remember "Get Brexit Done", "Brexit Means Brexit", "Crooked Hillary", "Make America Great Again", "Drain The Swamp"... there's a reason you do. They say what it is on the tin.

"The origin of SARS-CoV-2 that causes the respiratory disease COVID-19 was the Wuhan area of China" doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

Basic politics. You have to say everything repeatedly to have a chance of the message getting through.

As for your first sentence, well, I'd love to live in an ideal world where people weren't stupid, but unfortunately a lot of them are.

 

[Tubey]

I mean again the problem is the wet markets so instead of getting all dramatic I'd simply get a coalition of nations to push very hard for them to be shut down. That's really the end of what needs to be done, and you're talking about threats and alienation and such.

And I'm not really missing your point as much as making a separate one that the US is a giant gang of hypocrites who wouldn't have a leg to stand on if China were interested in fighting back.

With the WHO, I don't really know what to do because it feels like they should have important functions, so just shuttering it isn't an ideal thing.

Same thing.

A coalition of nations that don't threaten to do anything is basically nothing. See the Iranian response to the US pulling out of the nuclear deal and realising Europe were about as relevant as a fart in the wind as a comparison for details.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Same thing.

A coalition of nations that don't threaten to do anything is basically nothing. See the Iranian response to the US pulling out of the nuclear deal and realising Europe were about as relevant as a fart in the wind as a comparison for details.

We're not exactly asking them to do a whole lot though. That's why I keep saying I don't see a need for it to get all crazy. I think there is a real chance it can be done without threats.