Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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verreauxi said:
Apparently our successful businessman who claims to have read through all the posts here must have missed this important post regarding Obama and the family separation issue. But what would I know, I'm a young college kid. His dad was union you know...


FROM: http://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2018/06/zero-tolerance-immigration-primer

I think most know, but in case people don’t, I’m an immigration lawyer. Made the switch about 2 years ago after a career in which I mostly did patent and trademark litigation. I’m currently a solo practitioner in the DC area and the majority of my clients are asylum-seekers from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala. I’ve tried – and even won – asylum trials in immigration court, and have interviewed literally thousands of undocumented individuals to hear their stories and evaluate the merits of their cases.

Prior to zero tolerance (I’ll just use ZT to denote going forward), a mother and 2 sons leave El Salvador because of gang violence or domestic violence. They pay a “coyote” to take them and a bunch of other folks to the US border. These are mostly people with second grade educations, and they know [Poor language removed] all about US immigration law. They cross the border and are apprehended. Pretty much 100% of border crossers in 2018 are apprehended, and it’s been that way since about 2010. All the “border security” measures that have gone into effect since 2005 when GWB proposed an amnesty have increased the number of border patrol and the technology they use to patrol. Of the thousands of undocumented individuals I have interacted with, literally not a single one entered the US after 2010 and was not apprehended at or near the border. The dirty little secret of immigration policy is that the border is already secure.

If this mother and 2 children were apprehended prior to ZT, they were taken to a detention center along the border. There are many such centers in southern Texas, southern AZ and southern CA. The parents and children were not separated for any appreciable length of time. Never. Anybody who says different is misinformed. Or lying. Your mileage may vary. If the parent stated that she wanted asylum, she was given what is called a Credible Fear Interview, in which she detailed the reasons for leaving El Salvador. The purpose of the CFI is not to finally adjudicate whether to grant asylum – that is done by an immigration judge or by USCIS. If the CFI states that there is no credible fear of return to your home country, you are deported. If after the interview, it is determined that you have a credible fear of returning to your country, then you are given a Notice to Appear that is the document that begins the immigration court process. It states that you are not a US Citizen or legal permanent resident, you are not here under a visa, you are a citizen of El Salvador, and you are removeable under the Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA). Asylum is a defense to removal in immigration court. An asylum-seeker files form I-589, along with as much evidence as she can obtain to support the asylum claim. The immigration judge determines whether to grant asylum or deny. Denial means removal, aka deportation. You can appeal a negative decision to the Board of Immigration Appeals, and after that to the federal appeals circuit that covers your area – 6th circuit for those in Michigan and Ohio, 4th circuit for Virginia and Maryland, 7th circuit for Illinois and Wisconsin, for example.

While in detention, the families would be kept together. ICE would determine whether to release on own recognizance or under a bond. Typically, they do not do so, and so the immigrant can ask the immigration judge to release them under bond. Bond rules in immigration court are the same as in regular court – if you are deemed a danger to the community or a flight risk, bond can be denied and you are detained throughout the pendency of your case. Rarely were parents with children denied bond altogether. They were usually released within anywhere from 2 days to 2 months. Again, when there are children, they would try and expedite their release so they’re not sitting in a detention center for months at a time.

Now, under ZT, the administration is criminally charging the parents and using that as the facade to separate the children from the parents. Obviously, if someone is arrested for suspicion of a crime, and he/she has children, that person is separated from the children. So that is how they are accomplishing the separations – by criminally indicting the parents. A first unlawful entry into the US is a misdemeanor, lesser penalty than possession of a small amount of marijuana for personal use. So no prior administration took the step of criminally prosecuting these people, and especially not for the express purpose of separating the families as a deterrent to future immigrants as the administration admits it is doing.

There is obviously a TON more information than this, but I think this at least lays out the current situation with family separation, why it’s happening, and how prior administrations dealt with it.
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That's not right though is it ?

Does he have anything to back this up or is this his experience or perceived belief regarding the issue ?
 
verreauxi said:
The ole "everyone here is young and naive but me" argument. Once you reach a certain age...blah blah blah.

How utterly embarrassing.
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Currently there are 3 threads in the current affairs section where several posters have used that gem and turned the conversation into a generation thing.Sad that anyone would think that is acceptable behavior.
 
toffy said:
That's not right though is it ?

Does he have anything to back this up or is this his experience or perceived belief regarding the issue ?
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Do you have anything to back up your claim that it isn't? Do you yourself living in Australia keep up with US immigration stats then? Do you keep up with Border matters in the US and have relevant stats to prove that he is wrong and that Border security hasn't captured what he claims?
 
steveojcc said:
Do you have anything to back up your claim that it isn't? Do you yourself living in Australia keep up with US immigration stats then? Do you keep up with Border matters in the US and have relevant stats to prove that he is wrong and that Border security hasn't captured what he claims?
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Well to start, how did the illegal immigrants who killed Kate Steinle and Edwin Jackson come back. Steinle's killer I believe was toward the end of 2009 from memory. They didn't come through an airport or similar.

So you don't believe any person has successfully cross the us border since 2010 and not being apprehended ? Is that your position ?
 
toffy said:
Well to start, how did the illegal immigrants who killed Kate Steinle and Edwin Jackson come back. Steinle's killer I believe was toward the end of 2009 from memory. They didn't come through an airport or similar.

So you don't believe any person has successfully cross the us border since 2010 and not being apprehended ? Is that your position ?
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How do you know they didnt cross in a car or by plane? Most illegals come across the border properly and overstay their welcome. Thats fact and has been reported many times disputing trumps made up figures and conjecture.

Its a well known fact that most dont come through the dessert or over fences. Most of the border already has a fence ant the tunnels were for moving drugs.

The majority have come in vehicles and started out legally. Lad i live in san diego and i know quite a lot of people from different jobs and personal encounters who are from central america. They tell you trump is way off with his wall idea. Some of them have illegals in their family and some are friends with but one thing is clear they all know how it works.

That and the equipment the border guards have used is like an army from stealth aircraft, drones to military style helicopters.

I never said they didnt come across. I just think its funny here you are yet again all the way in australia defending trump and his measures with absolutely no skin in the game or knowledge yourself of this region.

Furthermore i think the point of the article is the claim that border security and the lawyer claim that 100% are captured based on their own experience and stats.

But sure you are the expert safely tucked away in whatever place in australia you are pretending to live.
 
steveojcc said:
How do you know they didnt cross in a car or by plane? Most illegals come across the border properly and overstay their welcome. Thats fact and has been reported many times disputing trumps made up figures and conjecture.

Its a well known fact that most dont come through the dessert or over fences. Most of the border already has a fence ant the tunnels were for moving drugs.

The majority have come in vehicles and started out legally. Lad i live in san diego and i know quite a lot of people from different jobs and personal encounters who are from central america. They tell you trump is way off with his wall idea. Some of them have illegals in their family and some are friends with but one thing is clear they all know how it works.

That and the equipment the border guards have used is like an army from stealth aircraft, drones to military style helicopters.

I never said they didnt come across. I just think its funny here you are yet again all the way in australia defending trump and his measures with absolutely no skin in the game or knowledge yourself of this region.

Furthermore i think the point of the article is the claim that border security and the lawyer claim that 100% are captured based on their own experience and stats.

But sure you are the expert safely tucked away in whatever place in australia you are pretending to live.
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Where did I defend Trump.

As for sounding like an expert. Get a grip. I asked a question to a statement I believed to be false. You go one about living in San Diego as if that makes you some sort of expert because you've got feet on the ground or many friends with knowledge about the topic.

You chime in every time and throw the Australia card, only post in this topic etc.

So how do you believe the illegals who killed Steinle and Jackson came across ? They get through immigration at an airport, drove or passenger in a car through the border crossings ?
 
toffy said:
Where did I defend Trump.

As for sounding like an expert. Get a grip. I asked a question to a statement I believed to be false. You go one about living in San Diego as if that makes you some sort of expert because you've got feet on the ground or many friends with knowledge about the topic.

You chime in every time and throw the Australia card, only post in this topic etc.

So how do you believe the illegals who killed Steinle and Jackson came across ? They get through immigration at an airport, drove or passenger in a car through the border crossings ?
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Err by defending the mess that is his immigration plan and mentioning the two guys he paraded the victims parents around for political gain or some other tidbit he hangs onto too justify his administration. Sorry but you pop your head up when anyone criticizes Trump and his administration and you go out of your way to defend it. They don't have to mention his name so don't be silly and pretend that you don't know what you are doing.

Lad believe it or not living in an epicenter you learn a lot. I don't claim nor have i that i know everything that's your claim.

Most people here are implants because of the military. Most of those here then join the police, ICE or border security. So its reasonable to assume if you get around and be sociable you are bound to meet them.

As for my profession i work in IT as a consultant in the automation industry so a lot of the people i come across are from latin America. I like to get to know people as an immigrant myself and i became friends and play in a soccer league with them. Again you learn a lot. Then there is the news. The local news is a great way to know what goes on in communities.

As for Jose Garcia Zarate who accidnetally shot Steinle he was aquitted of murder and only got a misdimeanor firearms charge and was deported. He claimed he crossed the border legally but its a grey area because ICE didnt keep records so their are several claims that cannot be backed up by many sides and his own story has changed several times.

Manuel Orrego-Savala who ran down Jackson came in legally the first time but not the 2nd or 3rd time ill give you that.

Both men deserved to be tried and convicted if found guilty and deported if they felt that fit. No one disputes that.

And yeah i think you are a real person but you are a trump apologist and a troll quite frankly. You chime in on Trump and only Trump issues. that's it. Your main aim is to try prove lefties wrong as you log in once or twice a week you are simply a weird fish.
 
toffy said:
Where did I defend Trump.

As for sounding like an expert. Get a grip. I asked a question to a statement I believed to be false. You go one about living in San Diego as if that makes you some sort of expert because you've got feet on the ground or many friends with knowledge about the topic.

You chime in every time and throw the Australia card, only post in this topic etc.

So how do you believe the illegals who killed Steinle and Jackson came across ? They get through immigration at an airport, drove or passenger in a car through the border crossings ?
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He’s entitled to play the Australia card, he lives on the border, you get your info from your countryman’s entertainment channel.
It’s like your arguing about the best away ground in England with someone who goes to every away.
 
toffy said:
That's not right though is it ?

Does he have anything to back this up or is this his experience or perceived belief regarding the issue ?
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I have no idea, I'm not an immigration lawyer, but I'm more likely to take stock in what they say versus someone without expertise. It seems the statistics are hard to pin down. Certainly, an immigration lawyer would have some bit of knowledge but a quick google search suggests the numbers of illegals caught entering this country vary quite a bit. There is a lot of politics that go into the calculations it seems.

But to suggest that the border is 100% secure is just silly and I definitely didn't take the piece I posted above to mean that. Certainly, illegals cross into this country and some small fraction of them can be murderers, drug-dealers, etc. This isn't in dispute. What Trump is claiming is that the majority (or a large fraction) of illegals are the most heinous criminals crossing the border in the history of the universe...all hyperbole intended. He does this because he is playing to his base, which is older entitled white people who are highly uncomfortable around brown people or out-right dislike them. It is literally that simple. And the most comprehensive study on immigration to date indicates that, on balance, immigration is good for the economy of the USA.

But, toffy, it is highly disingenuous to intimate to folks here that you are not continually defending Trump. You are. And your track record of posts here shows that. Just own it. But the problem with that view, which I suspect you are now figuring out, is that supporting one of Trump's views is akin to supporting all of his views. This is to say, if you like Trump's stance on tariffs for example, you must be willing to say that (puzzlingly, for an Australian) you are so impressed by Trump's trade policy that you are willing to support him on this position in spite of his odious views on women, on family separation, on non-white people; on his disregard for order, for law, for civility, etc. But supporting a single issue, like his attenuating and expiring tax cut for the middle class, is akin to saying that this 300$ annual rebate is somehow "worth it" with respect to all the corruption, hate, division he has caused or fomented. Thus you either support him in toto or you don't.
 
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