Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?

[TraffordBlue]

Really
You really believe finishing 4th means nothing ?
If wenger had got Arsenal to 4this season would he be on the scrap heap now ?

I for one would be overjoyed if the new guys deliver 4th thanks

It's something some of our fans like to say to try and make out we're still relevant in terms of trophies. Of course we are overall, but we haven't been a force in English Football for 30 years. Expecting a manager like Moyes, who had little money to spend and was up against clubs with vastly wealthier backing to reach the heights of a Catterick or Kendall is simply deluded. Especially when he came in to a club who finished higher than 12th once in the 10 seasons before he came in, whereas Kendall took over a club who had finished 3rd and 4th only a few seasons before that, and Catterick came in when the club finished 5th.

Obviously Moyes has achieved no where near what those 2 did but all this 'he never won anything so he was a failure' is a bit wide of the mark when you consider where we were when he came in, how much progress we made under him, and how far away from that we are now, despite having far superior resources.

As I mentioned on a different thread, it would be like saying that Pochettino's time at Spurs so far has been a failure. They haven't won anything and every time they face a tough test whether it is in Europe or a Semi Final, they 'bottle it'. Just like we did under David Moyes, but anyone with a bit of perspective can see that Spurs are far more of a threat and have made a huge amount of progress under their current manager.

 

[kenada_blue]

Moyes put in the foundations, made us respected again. Had the time to build and get so far.

Martinez reached for that next level and almost got there before falling on his own sword.

Koeman IMO was one of the worst decisions we've made at the club for almost 20+ years.

Big Sam - stop gap based on the previous manager. Will be forgotten in years to come.

 

[kenada_blue]

It's something some of our fans like to say to try and make out we're still relevant in terms of trophies. Of course we are overall, but we haven't been a force in English Football for 30 years. Expecting a manager like Moyes, who had little money to spend and was up against clubs with vastly wealthier backing to reach the heights of a Catterick or Kendall is simply deluded. Especially when he came in to a club who finished higher than 12th once in the 10 seasons before he came in, whereas Kendall took over a club who had finished 3rd and 4th only a few seasons before that, and Catterick came in when the club finished 5th.

Obviously Moyes has achieved no where near what those 2 did but all this 'he never won anything so he was a failure' is a bit wide of the mark when you consider where we were when he came in, how much progress we made under him, and how far away we are from that we are now, despite having far superior resources.

As I mentioned on a different thread, it would be like saying that Pochettino's time at Spurs so far has been a failure. They haven't won anything and every time they face a tough test whether it is in Europe or a Semi Final, they 'bottle it'. Just like we did under David Moyes, but anyone with a bit of perspective can see that Spurs are far more of a threat and have made a huge amount of progress under their current manager.

Good point on Poch btw.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Yes definitely better

He was exactly the right man after Walter Smith and rescued us from a truly perilous situation. He built an extremely competitive side on a very limited budget.

Finishing in the top 4 in 2005 was perhaps his zenith and high point, a massive achievement we shouldn't forget. We did play some exciting stuff especially at Goodison at that time too and it was worth watching.

As his reign progressed on though he was perhaps reflecting the team in that it was becoming stale and there was no progression, he wasn't really showing any signs of recapturing that feeling of building something worthwhile going forward, and we were looking a hard workmanlike but very limited outfit, perhaps relying on older players past their best just too often.

He still carried on achieving respectable enough finishes in the league but not really winning any big matches, with cup defeats to Liverpool and Wigan being real low points.

You couldn't blame him for moving to have a chance at United, but some of the transfer dealings and words said did engender a bitterness among the fans and perhaps clouded over a lot of the good memories of his time as manager.

I think time will heal any bitter feelings though and he will be remembered in the near future with the respect and thanks a large section of his reign here deserves.

 

[kenada_blue]

Moyes was also extremely lucky to have managed 4th on just 61 points. In the last 5 years that would have earned you 8th, 7th, 8th, 7th (Koeman’s first year finished on 61 points), and 7th.

By that then Martinez was extremely unlucky not to get us 4th with 72 points. It's only been topped in the last two seasons.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

It's something some of our fans like to say to try and make out we're still relevant in terms of trophies. Of course we are overall, but we haven't been a force in English Football for 30 years. Expecting a manager like Moyes, who had little money to spend and was up against clubs with vastly wealthier backing to reach the heights of a Catterick or Kendall is simply deluded. Especially when he came in to a club who finished higher than 12th once in the 10 seasons before he came in, whereas Kendall took over a club who had finished 3rd and 4th only a few seasons before that, and Catterick came in when the club finished 5th.

Obviously Moyes has achieved no where near what those 2 did but all this 'he never won anything so he was a failure' is a bit wide of the mark when you consider where we were when he came in, how much progress we made under him, and how far away from that we are now, despite having far superior resources.

As I mentioned on a different thread, it would be like saying that Pochettino's time at Spurs so far has been a failure. They haven't won anything and every time they face a tough test whether it is in Europe or a Semi Final, they 'bottle it'. Just like we did under David Moyes, but anyone with a bit of perspective can see that Spurs are far more of a threat and have made a huge amount of progress under their current manager.

Great post, expresses what an awful lot of us are thinking.

 

[kenada_blue]

Are we talking about the same Moyes? Ginger get, penknife to a sabre fight?

Belting the ball 90 yards into the box and causing a melee = hairs on the neck moments?

To be fair there was a point where we were competing enough it had the RS throwing punches at Phil Neville when he took a throw in.

 

[Rob17896]

All our permanent managers after Moyes have effectively stunk the place out. When Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce departed, they had all long outstayed their welcomes. I appreciate that a lot of people still feel animosity toward Moyes, but based on his performance as Everton manager, he was leagues better than any of his successors have been. He got us into the top 4 (which he still doesn't get enough credit for), led us to an FA Cup Final, and got us further in Europe than any manager since Kendall. He did this on a comparatively small budget. If Moyes had the money that Martinez and Koeman had, I reckon he would have spent it much more wisely. He also wouldn't have stood for transfer targets being dictated to him by a DOF, which has been a disaster for us thus far.

There were times when with maybe a couple of decent players extra he would have won something for sure. His mind had left us quite a while before he actually did though, it had run its course. DOF does not dictate signings though, it is a partnership. DOF should ensure continuity even if the coach fails. Suspect the true days of the all powerful manager are nearing an end. Not sure I have an opinion on that.

 

[BigBlueConk]

Some bad choices after Moyes at board level.
Moyes did his bit and nobody has taken us significantly forward.

However RM season one, was some of the best football we have played in 5 years. Only parked the bus maybe 5 or 6 times.

Everything has been downhill since. Average managers buying less than average players and paying over the odds.

Going to be a long road back lads to be seriously challenging for top 6, let alone top 4.

 

[BigBlueConk]

Just as a footnote... perception would say that other managers and fans of other teams have more respect for Moyes in his time at Everton than some Everton fans do.

And to be fair, just because 20 or so people stick the knife in on an internet forum, it is only 20 odd people or so.

Meaningless really.

 

[Blues Harp]

Are we talking about the same Moyes? Ginger get, penknife to a sabre fight?

Belting the ball 90 yards into the box and causing a melee = hairs on the neck moments?

Unlike your hero who had us making 60passes sideways in our own half and the ball ending up back with Howard......zzzzzz

 

[twoblue]

It's like saying Gaddafi was worse than Saddam Hussein,Everton have been rubbish for 30 years, doesn't matter who was the manager,moyes just took 11 years to build his team of failures,there's always likely to be ups and downs!

Gaddadi in his aviators looked cool as feck. As far as murderous dictators go he was by far my favourite.

 

[degsy]

All our permanent managers after Moyes have effectively stunk the place out. When Martinez, Koeman and Allardyce departed, they had all long outstayed their welcomes. I appreciate that a lot of people still feel animosity toward Moyes, but based on his performance as Everton manager, he was leagues better than any of his successors have been. He got us into the top 4 (which he still doesn't get enough credit for), led us to an FA Cup Final, and got us further in Europe than any manager since Kendall. He did this on a comparatively small budget. If Moyes had the money that Martinez and Koeman had, I reckon he would have spent it much more wisely. He also wouldn't have stood for transfer targets being dictated to him by a DOF, which has been a disaster for us thus far.

It may look better, but it was just a different kind of 'what coulda been' crap

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

Just as a footnote... perception would say that other managers and fans of other teams have more respect for Moyes in his time at Everton than some Everton fans do.

And to be fair, just because 20 or so people stick the knife in on an internet forum, it is only 20 odd people or so.

Meaningless really.

Thanks for that Sam

 

[tadao]

No