2025/26 David Moyes

[GrandOldTeam]

With these squad valuation arguments wages are never factored in are they?

Nope. Nor common sense it seems. Just had a glance - Pickford is £15m apparently. Branthwaite £40m. You then glance at other teams an see likes of Murillo £60m. It seems pulled from their arse and people take it as gospel from clickbait agency sites.

The only way to produce any worthwhile comparison on squad valuation is on last fee paid for the squad.

 

[Moomin]

Nope. Nor common sense it seems. Just had a glance - Pickford is £15m apparently. Branthwaite £40m. You then glance at other teams an see likes of Murillo £60m. It seems pulled from their arse and people take it as gospel from clickbait agency sites.

The only way to produce any worthwhile comparison on squad valuation is on last fee paid for the squad.

Don't forget that finishing 4th is better than winning the league.

 

[MikeH72]

Nope. Nor common sense it seems. Just had a glance - Pickford is £15m apparently. Branthwaite £40m. You then glance at other teams an see likes of Murillo £60m. It seems pulled from their arse and people take it as gospel from clickbait agency sites.

The only way to produce any worthwhile comparison on squad valuation is on last fee paid for the squad.

Forest’s squad value of £450m is based on actual fees paid and not a made up valuation, I can confirm that in writing. @Nymzee broke it down in the Forest thread.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Forest’s squad value of £450m is based on actual fees paid, I can confirm that in writing. @Nymzee broke it down in the Forest thread.

Didn't say otherwise. Transfermarkt which people used for Everton, have us at £423m. And that's with Pickford and Branthwaite together not even being enough to swop for Murillo.

 

[Efcjake]

The post was claiming Dyche outperfomed Moyes since becoming Forest manager. Someone replied saying Dyches squad has more value to it - which I commented to say its a really valid point. That's defending Moyes. Against Dyche, coincidentally.

With regards to previous seasons - it was reported in the likes of the Athletic last year only Ipswich had a lesser squad valuation than us, and we were the only team in the Prem who hadn't spent a penny the previous 5 years. Every window we had to sell players. Little wonder we were on our arse.

The valuation workings with us at 19th included last paid transfer fees for loan players, so a few bob for Broja, Harrison and Lindstom.

If you want to compare the two, youd have to include loans again. As inconvenient as that would be, yes, its £100m Grealish and 18m Rohl. Whichever source has used at 13th now, wouldn't.

But I dont think you can really compare them anyway, because sources vary - and teams around 7th-12th have very small margins. As i said in another thread earlier, its likely 2 results. That's not the same at the footer of the table.

Anyone who thinks 13th would be a good finish to this season are wrong. Just like 19th wouldn't have been accepted last season.

I'm not saying 13th would be a good finish, just as 19th wouldn't have been accepted as good last year.

I'm saying if we use squad valuation as a reason why Dyche struggled to achieve a respectable league finish last year before getting sacked then the same reasoning should be extended to Moyes if he fails to outperform what was actually a lower midtable level of investment this summer. At the moment, he's doing a good job of outperforming that spending.

People keep repeating that we spent a lot. We spent a lot when you compare it to the last 5 years of Everton spends, but we didn't actually spend a lot when you compare it to the rest of the league.

The 13th squad valuation people are claiming is coming from transfermarkt ffs

So they had NDiaye in £20m last season vs £40m this season etc.

Its basically football manager. It's their own view/guess. Clickbait network sites then spin it for easy content.

The 19th reported by credible outlets was based on the last transfer fee paid. As in what a squad cost, not what some Internet website thinks a players valuation is.

I can't find this Athletic article you keep referencing having us 19th for squad valuation but I look forward to them publishing an update. Do you think we will be higher than 13th?

Would you accept this from Sky as reputable? They're using transfer market too so probably not.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Sorry, what is it I am not comprehending here?







You seem happy to point to the squad valuation being 19th as an explanation for why we couldn't expect more out of Dyche last year. Fair enough.

Yet, when the squad has received some investment to bring it to what I've seen listed as the 13th most valuable squad you are now expecting that Moyes outperform that and finish 7-12th.

That seems a fairly obvious double standard. One manager you excused on the basis of squad valuation, yet for the other manager you ignore the squad valuation and insist on over performance for satisfaction.

Am I comprehending correctly?

Let’s for a second pretend the squad valuations are all correct (which I’m not convinced but anyway)

In the scenario when Dyche had a squad ranked 19th for squad value and had them 17th - which as most people at the time admitted was his worst form at the club and perhaps also influenced by off field factors such as takeover and contract position - you have considered this to be the absolute nadir of premier league management.

Now if Moyes has a squad that is 13th in value, and we finished the season in 11th (there’s 1 point between 8th and 11th currently). Given the externally favourable conditions of new owners, transfer money in both windows etc. would you also consider this an abomination? Or would you be on here lecturing everyone that he had the 13th worst squad so why should we expect top half?

I made the argument for ages on here when Dyche was around that the biggest factor to move the dial on our league position would be the quality of player we could buy and the amount we spent on transfers rather than spinning the wheel on a silver bullet manager who would consistently get a tune from loan players and free signings. Hardly anyone wanted to know though because it was funnier to just type Dychesaurus in capital letters or claim you were being gasdyched.

Now that he’s gone I’ve never seen so many net spend and squad value references on here! It’s like a massive lightbulb has gone off and people are like ‘maybe we do need to spend more on transfers’. Christ, next we might even get round to discussing the on field benefits of stable ownership or the points difference uplifts for new mangers vs later in their tenures.

All I can say is that at least we know it wasn’t Dyche who was limiting your ambitions all this time. How quickly nil satis turned into ‘why are people expecting top half’. Gasdyched indeed.

 

[Nymzee]

Didn't say otherwise. Transfermarkt which people used for Everton, have us at £423m. And that's with Pickford and Branthwaite together not even being enough to swop for Murillo.

Would be even better for Everton then considering Branthwaite cost two Freddos

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I'm not saying 13th would be a good finish, just as 19th wouldn't have been accepted as good last year.

I'm saying if we use squad valuation as a reason why Dyche struggled to achieve a respectable league finish last year before getting sacked then the same reasoning should be extended to Moyes if he fails to outperform what was actually a lower midtable level of investment this summer. At the moment, he's doing a good job of outperforming that spending.

People keep repeating that we spent a lot. We spent a lot when you compare it to the last 5 years of Everton spends, but we didn't actually spend a lot when you compare it to the rest of the league.




I can't find this Athletic article you keep referencing having us 19th for squad valuation but I look forward to them publishing an update. Do you think we will be higher than 13th?

Would you accept this from Sky as reputable? They're using transfer market too so probably not.

No, because right at the top it says transfers from transfermarkt. Which has 293m when its saying 423m

 

[blue to the bone]

Johnny cochrane wouldn't have defended dyche well as some here

 

[Marius57]

The 13th squad valuation people are claiming is coming from transfermarkt ffs

So they had NDiaye in £20m last season vs £40m this season etc.

Its basically football manager. It's their own view/guess. Clickbait network sites then spin it for easy content.

The 19th reported by credible outlets was based on the last transfer fee paid. As in what a squad cost, not what some Internet website thinks a players valuation is.

Transfermarkt do a purchase value alongside predicted market value. The purchase value for the players doesnt change, whereas their market value does.

It has the predicted market value at 423m not the cost of the squad which is has at 330m. (In €)

The 13th is the purchase cost of the squad.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Let’s for a second pretend the squad valuations are all correct (which I’m not convinced but anyway)

In the scenario when Dyche had a squad ranked 19th for squad value and had them 17th - which as most people at the time admitted was his worst form at the club and perhaps also influenced by off field factors such as takeover and contract position - you have considered this to be the absolute nadir of premier league management.

Now if Moyes has a squad that is 13th in value, and we finished the season in 11th (there’s 1 point between 8th and 11th currently). Given the externally favourable conditions of new owners, transfer money in both windows etc. would you also consider this an abomination? Or would you be on here lecturing everyone that he had the 13th worst squad so why should we expect top half?

Bingo. Much more articulately put than I could, especially half arsed on my mobile while watching the Arsenal match.

 

[Bedfordblue]

We're not really privy to the recruitment process, who's responsibility that has been and/or whether or not he's been limited by budget and availability in the areas he needs. He's only had one summer transfer window, with lots of positional gaps and quality defficiencies to fill. I would say that it's very rare for any manager to get all his buys correct, and that some might even be with one eye on the future. He was also very unlucky losing Branthwaite.

I mean he’s categorical stated he has final say, so some of the rationale for transfers lies with him surely?
So even allowing for getting some wrong, shear neglect to strengthen in some obvious positions warrants some scrutiny?

 

[Efcjake]

No, because right at the top it says transfers from transfermarkt. Which has 293m when its saying 423m

I'd like to see this Athletic article that has us 19th that you're taking as gospel. I can't find anything about it online.

 

[MikeH72]

Didn't say otherwise. Transfermarkt which people used for Everton, have us at £423m. And that's with Pickford and Branthwaite together not even being enough to swop for Murillo.

Pickford £30m
Travers £4m

Patterson £15m
Mykolenko £20m
Keane £30m
Branthwaite £1m
Tarkowski Free
O’Brien £17m
Aznou £9m

Garner £15m
Gana Free
Rohl Loan (£18m obligation)
Iroegbunam £9m
Alcaraz £12m
McNeil £20m
Dibling £35m
George Loan (£20m option)
Dewsbury-Hall £25m

Ndiaye £16m
Grealish Loan (£50m option)
Barry £27m
Beto £28m

That adds up to just under £300m including the £18m Rohl obligation, so I’ve got no idea where you/they have got a figure of £423m. That appears to be one of those made up figures that you don’t like to use. We can’t use the made up figures for one club and the actual fees paid for another, in order to make it look like the squads are more equally matched to suit an agenda regarding the managers imo.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Pickford £30m
Travers £4m

Patterson £15m
Mykolenko £20m
Keane £30m
Branthwaite £1m
Tarkowski Free
O’Brien £17m

Garner £15m
Gana Free
Rohl Loan (£18m obligation)
Iroegbunam £9m
Alcaraz £12m
McNeil £20m
Dibling £35m
George Loan (£20m option)
Dewsbury-Hall £25m

Ndiaye £16m
Grealish Loan (£50m option)
Barry £27m
Beto £28m

That adds up to £212m including the £18m Rohl obligation, so I’ve no idea where you/they have got a figure of £423m. That appears to be one of those made up figures that you don’t like to use. We can’t use the made up figures for one club and the actual fees paid for another, in order to make it look like the squads are more equally matched to suit an agenda regarding the managers imo.

Indeed its clearly bobbins. As it will be for every other team.

I dont need workings to know Evertons squad isnt worth £423m. Its an estimate based on worth now, but its well off an fee paid is the only sensible way.