2025/26 David Moyes

[Dwight K Schrute]

That's style rather than standard though isn't it? That's like saying the standard of tennis is lower now than it used to be because people just hit the ball harder and don't use the same array of strokes. That might mean it's less fun to watch, but if the people hitting the ball harder keep beating the players with the good groundstrokes, they are objectively 'better' aren't they? We can maybe say that in our opinion football isn't as good to watch as it was at some arbitrary point in the past, but it doesn't necessarily follow that that means the standard is lower. Again to keep on topic, we seem to struggle with both the physical and technical sides of the games at the moment, which you'd have to say is somewhat suboptimal.

Not really. Football is an entertainment and true standard is relative to the style. If there is little emphasis on technical players the standard will drop markedly. Athleticism is replacing good footballers. Many of the best players should have both, but in lieu of that, athletes are being chosen. How many genuinely brilliant footballers are out there?

I compare it to what it was like when I worked in education and saw the trends there. We all remember growing up having some awful teachers who were stealing a living, and some brilliant ones. What they have done is pulled the lowest standards up to a level with a degree of standardisation, but it is so uniform that it actually holds back and limits the bettter teachers as it promotes complete conformity. Whereas you can argue that gives you a net gain in something like education, in a team sport it just means a variety of teams that hit an average level all capable of beating one another, but no real quality to be seen compared to before.

But, back to Moyes: he is his own worst enemy and needs rescuing from his own worst instincts in order to succeed.

 

[TonyT65]

I’d love the manager to explain why he thought that the game was crying out for Beto and a centre midfielder playing left wing when we were drawing and there was still half an hour of normal time left to play.

Im sure he was making those changes before the equaliser... and then persisted with them after it.
A mistake at 1-0.... madness at 1-1.

 

[brian labone]

It does not matter if we get into Europe or not, with moyes in charge we will be out in the first round anyway.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Not really. Football is an entertainment and tue standard is relative to the style. If there is little emphasis on technical players the standard will drop markedly. Athleticism is replacing good footballers. Many of the best players should have both, but in lieu of that, athletes are being chosen. How many genuinely brilliant footballers are out there?

I compare it to what it was like when I worked in education and saw the trends there. We all remember growing up having some awful teachers who were stealing a living, and some brilliant ones. What they have done is pulled the lowest standards up to a level with a degree of standardisation, but it is so uniform that it actually holds back and limits the bettter teachers as it promotes conplete conformity. Whereas you can argue that gives you a net gain in something like education, in a team sport it just means a variety of teams that hit an average level all capable of beating one another, but no real quality to be seen compared to before.

I personally think it's that football has become more and more athletic. An athlete with limited technical ability can impact/survive playing in a game, much more than a technician with limited athleticism. The game is as fast as it's ever been, but the standard is still very high, it's just played at a pace that makes it more difficult to highlight the technical aspects. With better coaching, s&c, nutrition etc. The standard of players is also much closer (still better on average) than it was in the past. You don't see an Henry running past someone at ease as much, because all of the players have a good level of pace.

The Premier league has more money than ever, and more teams are able to spend good money to bring in top players from other leagues. So the difference between the top and middle isn't as wide as it used to be, and that middle group can all beat each other, so it's becoming a lot more like the Championship has been for many years.

Recruitment is paramount these days and clubs like Brighton, Bournemouth, Brentford have been ahead of the middle pack in terms of bringing players in to the league. Everton spent good money last Summer, on a left back who never players, a wide player who rarely plays, and 2 midfielders who rarely play. Really for a club with more limited resource, the money needs to be spent on players who impact the first 11. I agree with bringing in players with sell on values etc. but if you don't play them, then it's a pointless exercise and wasted funds.

 

[Lanolin]

Not really. Football is an entertainment and true standard is relative to the style. If there is little emphasis on technical players the standard will drop markedly. Athleticism is replacing good footballers. Many of the best players should have both, but in lieu of that, athletes are being chosen. How many genuinely brilliant footballers are out there?

I compare it to what it was like when I worked in education and saw the trends there. We all remember growing up having some awful teachers who were stealing a living, and some brilliant ones. What they have done is pulled the lowest standards up to a level with a degree of standardisation, but it is so uniform that it actually holds back and limits the bettter teachers as it promotes complete conformity. Whereas you can argue that gives you a net gain in something like education, in a team sport it just means a variety of teams that hit an average level all capable of beating one another, but no real quality to be seen compared to before.

But, back to Moyes: he is his own worst enemy and needs rescuing from his own worst instincts in order to succeed.

That doesn't work in the context of the discussion though. What you're saying is basically 'football as a whole has got worse as a spectacle because there aren't as many maverick players'. That's a totally valid viewpoint, but it's not in any way relevant to whether the standard of the league we're in this year is objectively poor in a way that would give us a better than usual opportunity to find ourselves higher up the table.

I agree on Moyes though, he is - and to some extent always has been - his own worst enemy.

 

[davek]

On nights like last night, I don't think he distinguishes...

Remember when Moyes came in last season: like a Buddhist monk he was with his calmness and gentle shrugs of the shoulder.

Moyes must have murdered that alter ego and buried him under the patio.

 

[COYBL25]

Remember when Moyes came in last season: like a Buddhist monk he was with his calmness and gentle shrugs of the shoulder.

Moyes must have murdered that alter ego and buried him under the patio.

 

[Pabbers]

I’m comparing this Premier League season to previous Premier League seasons. I don’t see what Europe has to do with that comparison. It’s still comfortably the best league in Europe; no other league comes close to matching the intensity and physicality of the Premier League

That doesn't make it better, or a better watch. Huge runners hoofing the ball long.

Any time we get a good midfielder that can put his foot on the ball, we cream ourselves.. Those are penny-a-penny in Euro leagues.

Its very different, that's for sure.

Most English fans just swallow the Media narrative, and don't actually watch other leagues.

 

[Toffeepot]

Moyes is very sneering about women reporters.

He hated everyone equally after last night's game I'd say

 

[davek]

He hated everyone equally after last night's game I'd say

He's lost the plot.

Definitely wrestling with some dualism.

Best thing all round if he now quit.

 

[Toffeepot]

That doesn't make it better, or a better watch. Huge runners hoofing the ball long.

Any time we get a good midfielder that can put his foot on the ball, we cream ourselves.. Those are penny-a-penny in Euro leagues.

Its very different, that's for sure.

Most English fans just swallow the Media narrative, and don't actually watch other leagues.

Thought Bernardo Silva was class against the RS the other day and he might've been the smallest on the pitch

 

[Toffeepot]

He's lost the plot.

Definitely wrestling with some dualism.

Best thing all round if he now quit.

Think he was just pissed off really, like all of us

 

[davek]

Think he was just pissed off really, like all of us

Unlike the rest of us he has the chance to get it right.

 

[Pabbers]

Not really. Football is an entertainment and true standard is relative to the style. If there is little emphasis on technical players the standard will drop markedly. Athleticism is replacing good footballers. Many of the best players should have both, but in lieu of that, athletes are being chosen. How many genuinely brilliant footballers are out there?

I compare it to what it was like when I worked in education and saw the trends there. We all remember growing up having some awful teachers who were stealing a living, and some brilliant ones. What they have done is pulled the lowest standards up to a level with a degree of standardisation, but it is so uniform that it actually holds back and limits the bettter teachers as it promotes complete conformity. Whereas you can argue that gives you a net gain in something like education, in a team sport it just means a variety of teams that hit an average level all capable of beating one another, but no real quality to be seen compared to before.

But, back to Moyes: he is his own worst enemy and needs rescuing from his own worst instincts in order to succeed.

Agree with this completely, I just cant articulate like you.

I've had many debates with mates on Prem V other leagues, and its always the same....they don't really watch any of them...they just watch CL nights and swallow the English narrative of "farmers" leagues.

Its not even JUST the football, its the crowds and atmosphere....every other Euro country is miles better than the Prem on it...yet many will just point at the number of bums on seats, and prem wins rubbish....its boring, its saturated and we lack so much character or individuality.

 

[MACCA75]

Not really. Football is an entertainment and true standard is relative to the style. If there is little emphasis on technical players the standard will drop markedly. Athleticism is replacing good footballers. Many of the best players should have both, but in lieu of that, athletes are being chosen. How many genuinely brilliant footballers are out there?

I compare it to what it was like when I worked in education and saw the trends there. We all remember growing up having some awful teachers who were stealing a living, and some brilliant ones. What they have done is pulled the lowest standards up to a level with a degree of standardisation, but it is so uniform that it actually holds back and limits the bettter teachers as it promotes complete conformity. Whereas you can argue that gives you a net gain in something like education, in a team sport it just means a variety of teams that hit an average level all capable of beating one another, but no real quality to be seen compared to before.

But, back to Moyes: he is his own worst enemy and needs rescuing from his own worst instincts in order to succeed.

There are still loads of really good footballers. The idea that the league used to be full of absolute maverick ballers is just nonsense. It was full of mediocre cloggers like Kevin Nolan, Ryan Shawcross and Lee Cattermole. The likes of whom just don’t get in Prem sides anymore.