Cup run or Table run?

[Allezfan]

Spurs after the europa league and us after Sunderland might have been worried about fatigue but we didn't lose a game in the league after that sunderland replay and spurs have been on superb form of late.

That's like arguing against the reliability of computers by quoting Y2K articles. Yes people were worried, but those worries proved baseless.

 

[Tubey]

Spurs after the europa league and us after Sunderland might have been worried about fatigue but we didn't lose a game in the league after that sunderland replay and spurs have been on superb form of late.

That's like arguing against the reliability of computers by quoting Y2K articles. Yes people were worried, but those worries proved baseless.

http://mancunianmatters.co.uk/conte...-tired-wigan-athletic-players-after-mancheste

Wigan Athletic manager Roberto Martinez admitted his side looked tired after their comprehensive defeat to Manchester United at the DW Stadium.

Two goals apiece from Robin van Persie and Javier Hernandez secured a comfortable for Sir Alex Ferguson’s men.

The Spaniard rued his inability to rotate his squad in the same manner as his counterpart Ferguson in order to cope with the hectic Christmas schedule.

"I did feel that we started well, and in many aspects of our performance we were trying to do all the good things we know we can do, but I did feel today was a game too many,†he said.

"I thought it was very frustrating for our players. It's been a really busy period and we haven't been able to share the efforts between the squad because we had so many injuries and players missing.

"Today, you look at the opposition and they've been able to make five or six changes from Saturday – I think that paid off for them.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/488557/benitez-blames-fatigue-after-shock-qpr-loss/

LONDON: Chelsea’s interim manager, Rafael Benitez, blamed his side’s 1-0 defeat to QPR on fatigue and admitted they cannot afford further slips if they are to close the 14-point gap on leaders Manchester United.

Benitez admitted striker Fernando Torres is one of the players who needs a rest and says he hopes to have completed the signing of Newcastle United forward Demba Ba before the FA Cup tie at Southampton tomorrow.

“We can’t carry on with the same players,†said Benitez. “We were playing the bottom of the league at home and you have to trust your players. The main thing is we were a bit tired and couldn’t produce the pass, the intensity and the movement. We have to have everything almost perfect now.

“Definitely the club is working on signing a new striker. If we can do the business, I hope so before weekend.â€

http://www.sport24.co.za/Soccer/EnglishPremiership/Ferguson-plans-rotation-20130102

Wigan - Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson has confirmed that he will rotate his squad once again for the FA Cup third-round tie at West Ham United at the weekend.

United retained their seven-point lead at the top of the Premier League with a 4-0 win at Wigan Athletic on Tuesday.

It was their fourth game in 10 days and only four players - David de Gea, Patrice Evra, Jonny Evans and Michael Carrick - have started in each of those games.

The United manager made five changes from the team that beat West Bromwich Albion 2-0 on Saturday and is determined to keep his squad fresh.

"Yes, we will make a few changes for the cup tie," he said.

"The likes of Patrice Evra and Michael Carrick, we took them off as soon as we got the third goal.

"They deserve a break and they have played in all the games. We'll have a look at the situation. We've got fresh players.

"Young Shinji (Kagawa) came in. We've got plenty of players to freshen it up."

Could go on forever.

Basically, the modern game is a squad game that you use to alleviate fixture congestion at all costs. As Everton don't have a squad to do that, you prioritise. Any manager would - from relegation battlers to those locked in a fight for the Champions League.

 

[Allezfan]

Tiredness is the standard excuse managers come out with when they lose. It's very convenent for them to say it.

Even with teams like Martinez' WIgan who play far far less games than Man U.

 

[Tubey]

Tiredness is the standard excuse managers come out with when they lose. It's very convenent for them to say it.

Even with teams like Martinez' WIgan who play far far less games than Man U.

That's ridiculous. Look at Alex Ferguson above. His side played four games in ten days, maintained a winning record, still at the top of the league - yet he had a squad that allowed him to do so with only four players playing in all of those games.

At Everton, we play nine or ten first team players every single game because we have no choice.

There's a massive, massive difference.

 

[Allezfan]

That's ridiculous. Look at Alex Ferguson above. His side played four games in ten days, maintained a winning record, still at the top of the league - yet he had a squad that allowed him to do so with only four players playing in all of those games.

At Everton, we play nine or ten first team players every single game because we have no choice.

There's a massive, massive difference.

But we're still performing and we've played the same amount of game this season as wigan. And frankly at a higher standard.

Where's our tiredness? It would have only been there if we lost.

Manager interviews aren't like secret diaries, they're views expressed by individuals with a huge personal stake in the perception of the game and clear agendas.

 

[WuTangToffee]

Should be illegal to drink and post.

 

[PITA]

Check the fixture list from now on until the end of the season. We play three Premier League games some months, four the rest, never any more than that.

http://www.evertonfc.com/match/premier-league-football-fixtures.html

So I'm saying that if we play an extra six to ten games from now on to the end of the season, it's the equivalent of playing another one and a half (6 games) to two (8 to 10 games) months worth of games.

I suspect that May (in Premiership terms) is a short month. As I said there are lies, damn..............

Following your logic - what's the point of finishing top 4 if it means you have to play a shed load of extra games next season and put your Premiership position at risk? In fact, what's the point of football if you don't want to win silverware because you want to finish third runner up and (because of the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round)) put your chances of finishing third runner up the following season at risk (due to the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round))........cue the FOR NEXT loop.

 

[tim cahill]

I suspect that May (in Premiership terms) is a short month. As I said there are lies, damn..............

Following your logic - what's the point of finishing top 4 if it means you have to play a shed load of extra games next season and put your Premiership position at risk? In fact, what's the point of football if you don't want to win silverware because you want to finish third runner up and (because of the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round)) put your chances of finishing third runner up the following season at risk (due to the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round))........cue the FOR NEXT loop.

Got to agree with this. Every game we play we should play to win 100%. We've had many less games than the teams around us in the league anyway.

 

[Tubey]

I suspect that May (in Premiership terms) is a short month. As I said there are lies, damn..............

Following your logic - what's the point of finishing top 4 if it means you have to play a shed load of extra games next season and put your Premiership position at risk? In fact, what's the point of football if you don't want to win silverware because you want to finish third runner up and (because of the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round)) put your chances of finishing third runner up the following season at risk (due to the extra games (assuming you get through the CL qualifying round))........cue the FOR NEXT loop.

For the prestige alone. I wouldn't expect us to compete properly in the Champions League, just like Celtic etc. consider it an amazing added bonus to have qualified. I wouldn't even expect us to qualify again the next year, as it's difficult to do so, in the same way that winning back to back FA Cups is incredibly hard.

Finishing 4th is like qualifying for a massive cup final. As our own manager believes too (and as most managers in modern football also believe):

The Everton boss told the Sunday Mirror: "I would really hope Fellaini will stay if we were in the Champions League.

"Of course, he might still go for the money on offer somewhere else, but at least he wouldn't be going for the Champions League.

"If you want to keep your best players you need top European football because they want to be involved in that.

"I agree with Arsene Wenger that finishing in the top four is the equivalent of winning a trophy - even if you don't get to parade silverware.

"I don't know whether every financial problem would be solved just by qualifying.

"But, for me, it would have an absolutely massive impact in terms of keeping the players I have and bringing in new faces."

And there's no lies in what I'm saying - September has four Premier League games, October has three, November has five, averaging out to four - then December has six and everyone moans about the "busy festive period".

The fixture list is here for all to see:

http://www.evertonfc.com/match/premier-league-football-fixtures.html

We play either four games in January 2013, or potentially six if we draw with Cheltenham. Simple question - if you're pushing for fourth place, would you prefer to play the extra two cup games or save your squad for the league games? It's a no brainer for me.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Simple answer is, while I desperately want to see us win some silverware, finishing 4th has the POTENTIAL to completely transform our club and the perception of it in the football world.

It's an easy choice to make. Apart from anything else, getting 4th this season would increase our chances of bagging silverware in years to come.

 

[PITA]

For the prestige alone. I wouldn't expect us to compete properly in the Champions League, just like Celtic etc. consider it an amazing added bonus to have qualified. I wouldn't even expect us to qualify again the next year, as it's difficult to do so, in the same way that winning back to back FA Cups is incredibly hard.

Finishing 4th is like qualifying for a massive cup final. As our own manager believes too (and as most managers in modern football also believe):



And there's no lies in what I'm saying - September has four Premier League games, October has three, November has five, averaging out to four - then December has six and everyone moans about the "busy festive period".

The fixture list is here for all to see:

http://www.evertonfc.com/match/premier-league-football-fixtures.html

We play either four games in January 2013, or potentially six if we draw with Cheltenham. Simple question - if you're pushing for fourth place, would you prefer to play the extra two cup games or save your squad for the league games? It's a no brainer for me.

Tubey, I'm not really accusing you of lies. It's just that stats can be used/massaged to say what you want them to say.

Our Premiership season started on 20 August and finishes on 19 May. That is 9 months start to finish. My point is that 38 divided by 9 is 4.22 not 3 to 4.

Any level of success (top 4, Europa Cup placing, FA Cup) brings extra games. That must be what we want rather than what we fear. Else, what's the point?

 

[tim cahill]

Simple answer is, while I desperately want to see us win some silverware, finishing 4th has the POTENTIAL to completely transform our club and the perception of it in the football world.

It's an easy choice to make. Apart from anything else, getting 4th this season would increase our chances of bagging silverware in years to come.

Think you're overestimating the impact it would have. Didn't make much difference last time did it? How much money do you think it would give us?

The only hope would be a better chance of finding a buyer for the club, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

 

[Tubey]

Tubey, I'm not really accusing you of lies. It's just that stats can be used/massaged to say what you want them to say.

Our Premiership season started on 20 August and finishes on 19 May. That is 9 months start to finish. My point is that 38 divided by 9 is 4.22 not 3 to 4.

Any level of success (top 4, Europa Cup placing, FA Cup) brings extra games. That must be what we want rather than what we fear. Else, what's the point?

The FA Cup starts in January, so I'm simply using January onwards as the marker for what I'm talking about. The FA Cup has no influence on absolutely anything pre-Christmas.

January - 4 league games
February - 3
March - 4
April - 4
May - 3

18 games. 18 divided by 5 = 3.6 games per month.

The FA Cup has between six to ten games between now and May, depending on how lucky you are, but even if you say six games, that's still 33% more fixtures added on to what there would be if the games didn't exist and the equivalent to a month and a half/two months of fixtures added on.

Which is all I said:

To put that into perspective, we play three to four Premier League games a month. An FA Cup run would be the equivalent to play between one and a half to two extra months of football.

Also, there's two games to be played after the FA Cup final, so you have to include that fixture. One or two anyway, not sure which. That's been the case for the last few seasons; it's lowered the tone and overall prestige of the FA Cup even further unfortunately.

 

[Slavan]

cup run and win something for once

 

[johnnydawg68]

CL for me. I've said this before. I love the cup runs, but winning the FA Cup and finishing outside the top four does nothing to move the club forward. This isn't the old days. A cup win doesn't mean as much as it used to. So if I HAD to choose, I'd choose 4th. The thing is at this stage, you don't really have to choose you can play some of the regular 11, and mix in a few youngsters and fringe players. The problem is when you get to the quarters, you're close. And at that point, we have to go for it. So there isn't really a choice. You have to go for both.