Cup run or Table run?

[Brennan]

Oh look, the troll who has an opinion on everything has an opinion on something. Whaddya know

Calling me a troll while being openly aggressive for no reason. Okay Tubey lar.

 

[Allezfan]

It does make me laugh how people think we have a "better chance" of winning the FA Cup too. The winners have been one of the top four almost exclusively since we won it in 1995. Portsmouth are pretty much the sole exception to that rule. So comments like the below:



... are just bizarre to me. It assumes we'd win the cup if we gave it an effort, but we'd definitely, definitely fail if we attempted for fourth!

But getting to fourth isn't the equilivent of winning the fa cup. It's basically the same as reaching the final.

Which Cardiff, Millwall, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke etc have done recently.

We reached the final once and then lost vs chelsea and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out, we reached 4th once too and then lost to Villarreal and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out.

 

[noharmdone]

The players want a cup.

Personally, I want a cup.

 

[Del]

In the last ten years Man U have always finished in the top 3 and won 5 leagues, while also reaching nine finals and 13 semi finals. Their last three champions league finals came in years they also won the league.

Arsenal reached 4 FA Cup finals and one semi in five years and that was their best period in the league too, with 2 1sts and 3 2nds which is vastly better than the years since when they haven't had those cup runs. The three finals and seven semis they've reached since then hasn't stopped them finishing 4th either.

Chelsea reached seven finals and eleven semis in seven years and won three league and never finshed lower than 3rd.

The red ****e won three cups once and still finished 3rd which was the best they'd done in years. They also finished 3rd when they won the fa cup and when they reached their last CL final.

There just isn't this link where good cup teams do worse in the league.

Just look at our league form during our Moyes era cup runs.

We are not Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal or - indeed - Liverpool. We haven't spent £200-300m+ developing deep, versatile squads. Even the sh*te can play £20m reserve players like Jordan Henderson in cup games. Most match days we barely have enough senior players to fill the bench. Ty Browning was on the bench last game. If you said "who?" I wouldn't blame you.

Yet even those big squads very rarely win doubles and trebles because it's so difficult.

It does make me laugh how people think we have a "better chance" of winning the FA Cup too. The winners have been one of the top four almost exclusively since we won it in 1995. Portsmouth are pretty much the sole exception to that rule. So comments like the below:



... are just bizarre to me. It assumes we'd win the cup if we gave it an effort, but we'd definitely, definitely fail if we attempted for fourth!

Backing hairy face man at the moment.

Most people just scim read them anyway lad

Oh look, the troll who has an opinion on everything has an opinion on something. Whaddya know.

Calling me a troll while being openly aggressive for no reason. Okay Tubey lar.

But getting to fourth isn't the equilivent of winning the fa cup. It's basically the same as reaching the final.

Which Cardiff, Millwall, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke etc have done recently.

We reached the final once and then lost vs chelsea and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out, we reached 4th once too and then lost to Villarreal and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out.

So, we're half way down the season, and the "notorious slow starters" did not show up this time.

At the moment I write this, we are 2 (virtually 3 points - Chelsea has a game in hand) points behind a top-4 spot.

I believe Moyes will have to make choices soon, starting this Monday against Cheltenham. I don't think our squad is wide enough to withstand both cup and competition, so what do you prefer? A decent cup run, or trying to get the hands on "The Holy Grail" of 4th place?

I still lean towards cup run.

3rd place, FA cup win and a multi billionare to fund our assault on europe.
I'll settle for nothing less

Whats good about the FA Cup is that at first it completely replaces the Premier League on weekends so there really is no difference in the amount of games players play, just another match.

Both. And there is no reason why we cant.

That's just not true. There's no way you can spin the fact we'd be playing between six to ten extra games if we made the final.

To put that into perspective, we play three to four Premier League games a month. An FA Cup run would be the equivalent to play between one and a half to two extra months of football.

BOTH.

They should be...we do actually have some options too; especially against lower league oppostion. Although we know no-one should be underestimated this time. Even if we got to the final, it could potentially be only what 4 or 5 extra games from the league? That's obviously without any replays.

Except all our rivals are playing in europe and the world club cup and the league cup and the fa cup etc.

We can afford those six games because we're already about ten games ahead. And winning leads to more winning. A good cup win can raise the whole club which is way our best league form under Moyes has often conincided with our best cup runs.

If you can prove a link between winning cup games and losing the following league games in Moyes everton I will be shocked.

well if we get 4th , next season we would be playing a lot more games , and knowing the board we will only get players by selling , so our squad is not big enough for anything

In an ideal situation I would probably take 4th place and no trophies over 5th/6th and a trophy. Playing Champions League football is vital to progress to the next level.

It's not just Moyes' Everton, it's football overall. Look at Chelsea last year when they won the Champions League - only to finish easily outside the top four in the league. Look at Newcastle this season - Europa League run, combined with a relegation battle with half the side crocked.

The term "European hangover" has been defined off the back of an over-congested fixture list. The same logic applies to domestic cups - the more congested your fixture list is, the worse your general performances come. That's just common sense; especially when you have a squad which consists of about 15 senior first team players like we do.

If we play a youth team against Cheltenham, we have a 10 day rest between the Newcastle game and the Swansea game. If we play a first team, you have a game inbetween interrupting the schedule and only 5 days to the next Premier League game.

It's a no brainer for me.

How often do the FA cup and CL finalists finishh off the pace in the league? Not often. In recent times it's always the top four who play the most games and the other teams don't take advantage. Hence why there's been so many doubles and trebles of late.

And is 10 days rest better than 5 days rest. When does rest stop being useful and start just making you rusty?

I think our squad is capable of challenging on both fronts, tbh.

I agree with alot of this

 

[Tubey]

But getting to fourth isn't the equilivent of winning the fa cup. It's basically the same as reaching the final.

Which Cardiff, Millwall, West Ham, Southampton, Stoke etc have done recently.

We reached the final once and then lost vs chelsea and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out, we reached 4th once too and then lost to Villarreal and got nothing but a place in the europa and a nice day out.

But what is the prize for winning? A bit of silverware with the FA Cup - but the prospect of playing in the world's biggest club competition for the playoff.

That's the difference.

Also, that list of sides right there have never been within sight of the opportunity to finish 4th. If you ask the managers of all of those sides, they'd swap that cup final appearance for 4th place.

Our own manager would:

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...stay-if-Everton-get-into-the-Champions-League

The Everton boss told the Sunday Mirror: "I would really hope Fellaini will stay if we were in the Champions League.

"Of course, he might still go for the money on offer somewhere else, but at least he wouldn't be going for the Champions League.

"If you want to keep your best players you need top European football because they want to be involved in that.

"I agree with Arsene Wenger that finishing in the top four is the equivalent of winning a trophy - even if you don't get to parade silverware.

"I don't know whether every financial problem would be solved just by qualifying.

"But, for me, it would have an absolutely massive impact in terms of keeping the players I have and bringing in new faces."

But this thread happened last week.

 

[Tubey]

The players want a cup.

Personally, I want a cup.

The players want the Champions League.

Indeed, the lack of Champions League football is why we're always worrying about Baines and Fellaini every transfer window, and why we rule ourselves out of anyone linked with a Champions League club.

 

[Allezfan]

Yeah we've had this conversation before and I think we just aren't going to agree, mate. I still think we can have a real go at both the league and the cup without our form in either suffering but it's the sort of claim that's difficult to prove until it either does or doesn't happen.

I'd rather have both a trophy and a place in the CL is the bottom line and I think we're capable of it. You don't and that's fair enough. I understand your position.

 

[Brennan]

The players want the Champions League.

Indeed, the lack of Champions League football is why we're always worrying about Baines and Fellaini every transfer window, and why we rule ourselves out of anyone linked with a Champions League club.

The Champions League is a cup mate x

 

[noharmdone]

The players want the Champions League.

Indeed, the lack of Champions League football is why we're always worrying about Baines and Fellaini every transfer window, and why we rule ourselves out of anyone linked with a Champions League club.

Not true. Clique thread bump.

 

[Papa Shango]

I think all this resting players and teams not being able to compete on two fronts is a myth really.

Play to win every game. If players tire worry about it as and when.

 

[PITA]

That's just not true. There's no way you can spin the fact we'd be playing between six to ten extra games if we made the final.

To put that into perspective, we play three to four Premier League games a month. An FA Cup run would be the equivalent to play between one and a half to two extra months of football.

There's lies, damn lies and statistics.

3 to 4 suggests an average of 3.5. 38 divided by 3.5 is pretty damn close to 11. the season isn't 11 months long.

Even 3.9 (just sits within 3 to 4) suggests a season lasting nearly 10 months. It doesn't.

Also the FA Cup Final is normally played after the last Premiership game so maybe, in terms of affecting our League position, 5 to 9 games is more like the extreme.

Just saying.

 

[Brennan]

I think all this resting players and teams not being able to compete on two fronts is a myth really.

Play to win every game. If players tire worry about it as and when.

Correct.

If we were in Europe then we'd probably be really struggling squad wise. The FA Cup is only one extra game every couple of weeks.

 

[Tubey]

Yeah we've had this conversation before and I think we just aren't going to agree, mate. I still think we can have a real go at both the league and the cup without our form in either suffering but it's the sort of claim that's difficult to prove until it either does or doesn't happen.

I'd rather have both a trophy and a place in the CL is the bottom line and I think we're capable of it. You don't and that's fair enough. I understand your position.

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/new...ing-Swans-show-their-class-article882140.html

Moyes’ side face an FA Cup quarter-final replay on Tuesday after failing to see off Sunderland at Goodison last week, and the Scot fears *tiredness could be creeping into his side at the business end of the season after a hectic run of games.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...tml?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Everton manager David Moyes admits player fatigue is something he would be worried about if he was in his Tottenham counterpart Andre Villas-Boas' position ahead of Sunday's Barclays Premier League clash.

The contest at Goodison Park comes less than three days after Spurs' 3-1 Europa League victory over Panathinaikos on Thursday night, for which Villas-Boas fielded a relatively strong starting XI.

Although Moyes feels that will not necessarily have a negative impact on the London outfit, he says he would definitely be concerned about the possibility if it was his team.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/ever...bemoans-tired-legs-at-bolton-100252-25013280/

EVERTON manager David Moyes once again bemoaned tired legs as his side slumped to defeat at Bolton.

Goals form Louis Saha and MArouane Fellaini enabled the blues to fight bakc from2-0 down but Ivan Klasnic’s late winner completed a bad week for Moyes, whose depleted squad were thrashed 5-0 in Benfica on Thursday night,

“It was a long way to come from 2-0 down, but I thought we deserved to be back in it, that we had done enough,†Moyes said.

“But we ran out of steam with about 20 minutes to go. We didn’t really have the personnel to make changes, but we’re not using that as an excuse – we should never have been 2-0 down, never have got ourselves into that situation.


“I just told them (at half-time) to go on and win the game – I thought that it was there for us.

“When we got it back to 2-1 I thought we were in the ascendancy for periods and I thought if we could do the same we would get another goal, which we did.

“But when it got to 2-2 we stepped off it and ran out of energy.â€

etc. etc.

The journalism in that last article is shocking btw - spelling errors all over the shop!

There's numerous instances not just involving Moyes where managers cite fixture congestion as a concern. It's just common sense.

 

[Tubey]

There's lies, damn lies and statistics.

3 to 4 suggests an average of 3.5. 38 divided by 3.5 is pretty damn close to 11. the season isn't 11 months long.

Even 3.9 (just sits within 3 to 4) suggests a season lasting nearly 10 months. It doesn't.

Also the FA Cup Final is normally played after the last Premiership game so maybe, in terms of affecting our League position, 5 to 9 games is more like the extreme.

Just saying.

Check the fixture list from now on until the end of the season. We play three Premier League games some months, four the rest, never any more than that.

http://www.evertonfc.com/match/premier-league-football-fixtures.html

So I'm saying that if we play an extra six to ten games from now on to the end of the season, it's the equivalent of playing another one and a half (6 games) to two (8 to 10 games) months worth of games.

 

[Tubey]

Not true. Clique thread bump.

http://www1.skysports.com/football/...stay-if-Everton-get-into-the-Champions-League

The Everton boss told the Sunday Mirror: "I would really hope Fellaini will stay if we were in the Champions League.

"Of course, he might still go for the money on offer somewhere else, but at least he wouldn't be going for the Champions League.

"If you want to keep your best players you need top European football because they want to be involved in that.

"I agree with Arsene Wenger that finishing in the top four is the equivalent of winning a trophy - even if you don't get to parade silverware.

"I don't know whether every financial problem would be solved just by qualifying.

"But, for me, it would have an absolutely massive impact in terms of keeping the players I have and bringing in new faces."

Our own manager says different mate.