Cricket

tommytowne said:
I'm not sure about your feelings about popularity.
Like thousands of others I've been to the Caribbean on a good few cruises, and I make a bee line where possible to the cricket grounds. There always is a good crowd of youngsters either playing or practicing in the nets. The kids look good as well.
Maybe it's similar to our youngsters and football. Brilliant in their mid teens, then women enter into their lives and it's all downhill from there.
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PLAY ABANDONED for day 4

With the Carribbean being so close to the U.S. I think it's possibly also due to so much competition from American sports like basketball too. It's far more available to everyone with the new technology available to all since their heyday in the 1980's and it must be a huge rival attraction.

A combination of reasons with their great side declining and a miserable national side in the doldrums for decades, the lack of money available to the board and therefore relatively low wages available compared to rival sports. It may be big as a sporting tradition and recreation but if the national side - (not strictly true as group of nations and islands) is poor for decades it does have an effect.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
PLAY ABANDONED for day 4

With the Carribbean being so close to the U.S. I think it's possibly also due to so much competition from American sports like basketball too. It's far more available to everyone with the new technology available to all since their heyday in the 1980's and it must be a huge rival attraction.

A combination of reasons with their great side declining and a miserable national side in the doldrums for decades, the lack of money available to the board and therefore relatively low wages available compared to rival sports. It may be big as a sporting tradition and recreation but if the national side - (not strictly true as group of nations and islands) is poor for decades it does have an effect.
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I totally agree with you on the US influence.
Whatever the current state of the side, nothing will beat the WI sides of the sixties and seventies.
I'm no cricket fan but names like Wes Hall, Charlie Griffiths, Clive Lloyd, Sobers you could go on and on.
 
tommytowne said:
I totally agree with you on the US influence.
Whatever the current state of the side, nothing will beat the WI sides of the sixties and seventies.
I'm no cricket fan but names like Wes Hall, Charlie Griffiths, Clive Lloyd, Sobers you could go on and on.
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Yeah some greats there although tbh I would put their golden period a little later with Australia and England disputing the number one spot for most of the sixties and Australia clearly number one in the first half of the seventies.

When West Indies toured Australia in 1975/6 against the great Aussie attack of Dennis Lillee and Jeff Thompson they were taught a bit of a lesson going down easily in a six test series by five tests to one.

Clive Lloyd the then skipper said he learnt a hell of a lot from the pure pace on bouncy hard pitches that so unnerved their batsman. Michael Holding called it a turning point in West Indies cricket as the plan of a side reliant on four out and out pace men and no spin at all, took shape.

The later seventies and eighties were their true golden age with the decline setting in after that.
 
tommytowne said:
I'm not sure about your feelings about popularity.
Like thousands of others I've been to the Caribbean on a good few cruises, and I make a bee line where possible to the cricket grounds. There always is a good crowd of youngsters either playing or practicing in the nets. The kids look good as well.
Maybe it's similar to our youngsters and football. Brilliant in their mid teens, then women enter into their lives and it's all downhill from there.
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Women! I might have known!

I reckon it could be the influence of American culture and all that.
 
Manchester's rain magnet on to full power today?

Reading Cricinfo live report it's fine but just had a passing shower before 10 am, nothing much, and a possibility of a few in and around Manchester up to about 11ish. Looking out the window you wouldn't believe it's only so many miles away.

Classic from a Michael Potts: "Can you remind me again as to why they're not starting at 10:30am this morning...!?" -- Because fans have bought their train tickets already and it's not fair to change it at such short ... wait a minute!
 
Chris O'Connor said:
PLAY ABANDONED for day 4

With the Carribbean being so close to the U.S. I think it's possibly also due to so much competition from American sports like basketball too. It's far more available to everyone with the new technology available to all since their heyday in the 1980's and it must be a huge rival attraction.

A combination of reasons with their great side declining and a miserable national side in the doldrums for decades, the lack of money available to the board and therefore relatively low wages available compared to rival sports. It may be big as a sporting tradition and recreation but if the national side - (not strictly true as group of nations and islands) is poor for decades it does have an effect.
Click to expand...

The general consensus is that more younger players are playing the game now but ultimately they gravitate towards t20.

I read somewhere the money they get for a single IPL/t20 contract is around15 times what they wiould earn for playing Test cricket (I think the top contracts are about £100k per year + 5k per match). It's a no brainer really.

I've said a few times on here, but Pollard and Russel in particular are probably their 2 most naturall talented cricketers as whole packages (bat, bowl and fielding). I don't think they are quite Stokes level, but they are in that bracket. You also throw in Chris Gayle, and Dwayne Bravo (I appreciate they are a bit olderand not at the peak of their powers) and you see that there is a limit on the players they have playing test cricket. If you put those 2-4 in to this team, this series becomes a lot more interesting, and they are competitive in any match. Not quite the dominant force they were, but a very good team.

More broadly cricket has managed the rise in t20 terribly. It should have worked with t20, came to an international consensus about how to share the resources from IPL leagues and had a tighter, probably smaller window of opportunity for test cricket to be played, which could be partly subsidised by the monies raised by t20 cricket.

I meab the reality is, most of the West Indies great teams, if they played now, would just not play Test cricket. I'm not sure its talent drying up, it's more talent just electing not to play test cricket.
 
catcherintherye said:
The general consensus is that more younger players are playing the game now but ultimately they gravitate towards t20.

I read somewhere the money they get for a single IPL/t20 contract is around15 times what they wiould earn for playing Test cricket (I think the top contracts are about £100k per year + 5k per match). It's a no brainer really.

I've said a few times on here, but Pollard and Russel in particular are probably their 2 most naturall talented cricketers as whole packages (bat, bowl and fielding). I don't think they are quite Stokes level, but they are in that bracket. You also throw in Chris Gayle, and Dwayne Bravo (I appreciate they are a bit olderand not at the peak of their powers) and you see that there is a limit on the players they have playing test cricket. If you put those 2-4 in to this team, this series becomes a lot more interesting, and they are competitive in any match. Not quite the dominant force they were, but a very good team.

More broadly cricket has managed the rise in t20 terribly. It should have worked with t20, came to an international consensus about how to share the resources from IPL leagues and had a tighter, probably smaller window of opportunity for test cricket to be played, which could be partly subsidised by the monies raised by t20 cricket.

I meab the reality is, most of the West Indies great teams, if they played now, would just not play Test cricket. I'm not sure its talent drying up, it's more talent just electing not to play test cricket.
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For sides like Pakistan, New Zealand and the West Indies there is a huge discrepancy between rewards for red and white ball cricket, it doesn't help that the West Indies board always seems to be permanently staving off financial collapse. They've struggled to attract sponsorship, TV deals and the crowds for tests are totally dependant on away support, viable if it's England's huge following but not really anyone else.

Tbh the financial structure has always been a mess there, going all the way back to the let's 70's Kerry Packer had no problem getting Clive Lloyd to lead the world series team as the rewards were massive compared to what they're used to. They unbelievably had two rebel tours to South Africa in the early 80's too, mainly understudies and not first teamers, but money has always been a persistent problem and the riches of the T20 franchise competitions represent undreamt of wealth.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
For sides like Pakistan, New Zealand and the West Indies there is a huge discrepancy between rewards for red and white ball cricket, it doesn't help that the West Indies board always seems to be permanently staving off financial collapse. They've struggled to attract sponsorship, TV deals and the crowds for tests are totally dependant on away support, viable if it's England's huge following but not really anyone else.

Tbh the financial structure has always been a mess there, going all the way back to the let's 70's Kerry Packer had no problem getting Clive Lloyd to lead the world series team as the rewards were massive compared to what they're used to. They unbelievably had two rebel tours to South Africa in the early 80's too, mainly understudies and not first teamers, but money has always been a persistent problem and the riches of the T20 franchise competitions represent undreamt of wealth.
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Thats often the narrative about West Indies cricket, and while there may be some truth to it, the glib reality is that they struggle because the West Indies is a very poor area. There isn't the money in those countries to really generate enough revenue to make competitive offers to it's best players. The cricket community, inmy view could hav recognised this earlier, and I suppose a bit like how the PL runs, looked to protect each participant, but also recognised the West Indies had a unique and important role in the game and we needed protections.

If we have to play less Test Cricket, but meaningful series where the best play the best, tat makes more sense to me than what we currently do. If England want to play the West Indies, as a spectacle we should want Gayle, Pollard, Russell and Bravo playing for the West Indies so it's a competitve match. It may mean a mixture of diverting resources from ther areas to help that, and probably having some legislation involved to help underpin it.
 

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