Cricket

[Chris O'Connor]

I'm really looking forward to Pakistan too I think they're better than the Windies even if not quite as good as Australia or India, although tbf India as tourists over here have been on the wrong end of some very one sided scorelines, only winning two and losing eleven on their last three tours over here

This is courtesy of bluerinse on TEF...

"Thankfully for them their bowling stocks always seem to run deep. Mohammad Abbas is a very wiley bowler with experience of playing county cricket, reminds me a bit of Vernon Philander in style, Shaheen Shah Afridi as we saw in the last world cup is a real star in the making and the kid Naseem Shah (17 years of age, made his test debut age 16) is a very exciting prospect. Not to mention Yasir Shah is a top class leg-spinner and they've also got the like of Wahab Riaz (still going) and Sohail Khan.

Their squad was announced yesterday I think... Azhar Ali (c), Babar Azam (vc), Abid Ali, Asad Shafiq, Faheem Ashraf, Fawad Alam, Imam ul haq, Imran Khan, Kashif Bhatti, Mohammad Abbas, Mohammad Rizwan, Naseem Shah, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Shadab Khan, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Shan Masood, Sohail Khan, Usman Shinwari, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah."

Mohammad Amir to join up with Pakistan squad in England; Khushdil Shah out of first Test

Mohammad Amir will join up with Pakistans squad in England after the earlier than expected birth of his second child.

www.skysports.com

So Mohammed Amir here too.

Interesting selection problem (or a nice one to have) is who on earth goes for the next test starting next Wednesday vs Pakistan.

I can't see them repeating the error of not selecting Stuart Broad or Jimmy Anderson for the first test of a series again and Chris Woakes 'fivefer' possibly makes him nailed too given it's at rain city again. With Ben Stokes set to fill the fourth seamers spot it would appear Jofra Archer could miss out as five seamers is overkill over a batman or even carrying Bess the apinner.

I would guess it possibly depends if they plan to rotate again, with Chris Woakes having played twice at Manchester, but then it's difficult to second guess that. Bess is the obvious candidate if your picking on contribution to the last test, but with Stokes able to bowl we have four seamers already so it has to be s seamer. Possibly on form you would say Anderson or Archer the least successful. It's just there are reasons to play all of them and someone has to miss out if they restore their top six batsman now Stokes can bowl again.

I suppose Jimmy needs to be managed and all this without even counting Mark Wood and Sam Curran. They really do have enough choice to do what they like.

Maybe Archer stays in as he offers something different and you could say Anderson and Woakes are more similar? I personally would lose Jimmy but then he offers so much control and it's at Old Trafford, you can pretty much make a case for everyone.

 

[catcherintherye]

I'm really looking forward to Pakistan too I think they're better than the Windies even if not quite as good as Australia or India, although tbf India as tourists over here have been on the wrong end of some very one sided scorelines, only winning two and losing eleven on their last three tours over here

This is courtesy of bluerinse on TEF...

"Thankfully for them their bowling stocks always seem to run deep. Mohammad Abbas is a very wiley bowler with experience of playing county cricket, reminds me a bit of Vernon Philander in style, Shaheen Shah Afridi as we saw in the last world cup is a real star in the making and the kid Naseem Shah (17 years of age, made his test debut age 16) is a very exciting prospect. Not to mention Yasir Shah is a top class leg-spinner and they've also got the like of Wahab Riaz (still going) and Sohail Khan.

Their squad was announced yesterday I think... Azhar Ali (c), Babar Azam (vc), Abid Ali, Asad Shafiq, Faheem Ashraf, Fawad Alam, Imam ul haq, Imran Khan, Kashif Bhatti, Mohammad Abbas, Mohammad Rizwan, Naseem Shah, Sarfaraz Ahmed, Shadab Khan, Shaheen Shah Afridi, Shan Masood, Sohail Khan, Usman Shinwari, Wahab Riaz, Yasir Shah."

Mohammad Amir to join up with Pakistan squad in England; Khushdil Shah out of first Test

Mohammad Amir will join up with Pakistans squad in England after the earlier than expected birth of his second child.

www.skysports.com

So Mohammed Amir here too.

Interesting selection problem (or a nice one to have) is who on earth goes for the next test starting next Wednesday vs Pakistan.

I can't see them repeating the error of not selecting Stuart Broad or Jimmy Anderson for the first test of a series again and Chris Woakes 'fivefer' possibly makes him nailed too given it's at rain city again. With Ben Stokes set to fill the fourth seamers spot it would appear Jofra Archer could miss out as five seamers is overkill over a batman or even carrying Bess the apinner.

I would guess it possibly depends if they plan to rotate again, with Chris Woakes having played twice at Manchester, but then it's difficult to second guess that. Bess is the obvious candidate if your picking on contribution to the last test, but with Stokes able to bowl we have four seamers already so it has to be s seamer. Possibly on form you would say Anderson or Archer the least successful. It's just there are reasons to play all of them and someone has to miss out if they restore their top six batsman now Stokes can bowl again.

I suppose Jimmy needs to be managed and all this without even counting Mark Wood and Sam Curran. They really do have enough choice to do what they like.

Maybe Archer stays in as he offers something different and you could say Anderson and Woakes are more similar? I personally would lose Jimmy but then he offers so much control and it's at Old Trafford, you can pretty much make a case for everyone.

Pakistan are better than Windies, but will face similar problems in my view. A great attack, but to be honest a batting line u who will struggle.

Re England, I think they keep that 4 together for the first 2 tests at least. If they win both maybe Curran and Wood can change in.

Bess is interesting to me. I think he is one they may look at to come out. If we bowllike we did in this test atch, you just don't need a spinner. If you have 5 bowlers+ Root they can all be rested. More medium term, I like Bess a lot, but conversely I do wonder if he hás to imrpove his batting as much as his bowling to cement a place. I think they'd love him to be a number 7 and bowler who bowls every so often. I think both he and Currans bets chance to force their way in is to improve their batting.

 

[Toast]

Was listening to Ali Brown ( ex Surrey big hitter ) on the racing post greyhound channel tonight, he’s now virtually a pro punter, and he reckons Broad has his eyes on Jimmys record. Would take some doing that, but Broad is still a fit fella.

 

[catcherintherye]

Was listening to Ali Brown ( ex Surrey big hitter ) on the racing post greyhound channel tonight, he’s now virtually a pro punter, and he reckons Broad has his eyes on Jimmys record. Would take some doing that, but Broad is still a fit fella.

Unlikely, but by no means impossible. They both look like they've got a fair bit in them yet. Injuries will probably be key.

 

[ToffeeTim]

I think Broad is bowling as well as he ever did. His consistency is getting better and better. I knew he would take a hatful of wickets after he smacked them round the park with the bat.

The boy is a winner and the first name on the red ball team sheet.

 

[StreetEndBlue]

I've heard many times in the last decade or so about Edgbaston being England's 'fortress' but surely that should be reserved for Old Trafford. With today's comfortable win that makes it 11 wins and only one loss in the last 14 Tests in Manchester which is some record. More of the same against Pakistan next week please.

I'd certainly be playing Broad, Anderson and Woakes, in our conditions they can bowl out any side. I'd fancy our chances of knocking over a Pakistan batting line-up which must be rusty given the lack of proper games leading up to the first Test.

With Broad getting to 500 wickets I reckon he's now got his eye on 600 and, considering he's surely got more years left, then overtaking Jimmy's number at some point. I did post earlier in this thread that his 62 runs with the bat could inspire him with the ball and with 10 wickets in the match he did just that.

Credit also must go to the West Indies for coming over here during the pandemic. They played some decent cricket at times and it was a good series to watch. Didn't think we'd be seeing any international cricket this summer so fair play to them for coming over to England in these difficult times.

 

[Toast]

I think Broad is bowling as well as he ever did. His consistency is getting better and better. I knew he would take a hatful of wickets after he smacked them round the park with the bat.

The boy is a winner and the first name on the red ball team sheet.

Pitching it up more is noticeable in this series.
Having said that, some of today’s Leg befores were the most plumb you will ever see.

 

[Mildredblues]

Pakistan always seem to find a new, unknown hero everytime they play England.

 

[Westend Blue]

Pakistan where down under last summer and they have potential in there team but a long way off cohesive test team.

Abbas, Shahx3, Riaz and Rizwan flattered to deceive all bowled inconsistent spells leaked heaps of runs.

More impressed with there batting and that's going to be key for them to winning

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Pakistan are better than Windies, but will face similar problems in my view. A great attack, but to be honest a batting line u who will struggle.

Re England, I think they keep that 4 together for the first 2 tests at least. If they win both maybe Curran and Wood can change in.

Bess is interesting to me. I think he is one they may look at to come out. If we bowllike we did in this test atch, you just don't need a spinner. If you have 5 bowlers+ Root they can all be rested. More medium term, I like Bess a lot, but conversely I do wonder if he hás to imrpove his batting as much as his bowling to cement a place. I think they'd love him to be a number 7 and bowler who bowls every so often. I think both he and Currans bets chance to force their way in is to improve their batting.

The only thing with five seamers is the fifth is unused, it's just one too many and a spinner in Manchester is normally very useful as it does turn. If the forecast is like this week then you could see an all seam attack being enough, you still only really need four though.

There are alternatives like playing Stokes as a batsman only but why would you do that unless he's carrying an injury? The four seamers were picked this week primarily because of Stokes being unable to bowl and therefore it wasn't five. They chose Bess over an extra batter but actually Bess wasn't needed despite his useful late order runs.

If it's as wet and overcast as these last two tests in rain city have been, then you may even think why not 7 batters and just four seamers with Stokes being a luxury bowler you may not need. I just think part of Stokes armoury as an all-rounder is his bowling, and to pick four other seamers would necessarily mean your sidelining him and that must be a mistake. A seamer goes for me, if the weather is anything like this week then it has to be Archer, if it's a lot drier and the wicket harder Anderson is given a rest.

Pakistan's batting is much better than the Windies, Babar is just quality and has made quite s few centuries and fifties in their last series of tests.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

I think Broad is bowling as well as he ever did. His consistency is getting better and better. I knew he would take a hatful of wickets after he smacked them round the park with the bat.

The boy is a winner and the first name on the red ball team sheet.

As highlighted on TV, he's bowling a fuller length and threatening the edge of the bat and lbw's far more. It may mean going for a few more with it being more drivable for the batsman but any movement has a far better chance of that edge being found.

That change of length is making the difference and he's managing to hold the seam more upright through delivery allowing him to swing it away from the right hander. His use of the 'wobble' or scrambled seam on slow pitches where he doesn't hold it upright and isn't trying to hit the seam and his tendency to fall away in his action had not helped his away swinger (to the right hander) and he'd lost his ability to bil it. It's now back.

His line is also far more on off stump than outside and with so many West Indians not getting properly forward but stuck on the crease it's reaping rewards, a bit like how Gary Ballance was badly found out against good test quality seamers - if you don't get a good stride forward you're in trouble.

It's like the good fast bowler often bowls a bouncer to force the batsman back and make him reluctant to stride forward so when the next is pitched up he's stuck on his crease and either bowled, lbw or nicks off if a bit wider, it makes the batter tentative in his foot movements.

Great bowling from Stuart as he didn't need the bouncer as the Windies batters seemed reluctant to get that stride in anyway

 

[Chris O'Connor]

I think Broad is bowling as well as he ever did. His consistency is getting better and better. I knew he would take a hatful of wickets after he smacked them round the park with the bat.

The boy is a winner and the first name on the red ball team sheet.

Grammar and typos corrected, 10 mins expiry meant I couldn't with the above post.



As highlighted on TV, he's bowling a fuller length and threatening the edge of the bat and lbw's far more. It may mean going for a few more with it being more drivable for the batsman but any movement has a far better chance of that edge being found.

That change of length is making the difference and he's managing to hold the seam more upright through delivery allowing him to swing it away from the right hander. His use of the 'wobble' or scrambled seam on slow pitches, where he doesn't hold it upright and isn't trying to hit the seam, and his tendency to fall away in his action had not helped his away swinger (to the right hander) and he'd lost his ability to bowl it. Now it's back.

His line is also far more on off stump than outside, and with so many West Indians not getting properly forward but stuck on the crease it's reaping rewards, a bit like how poor Gary Ballance was badly found out against good test quality seamers - if you don't get a good stride forward you're in trouble.

It's like the good fast bowler often bowls a bouncer to force the batsman back and make him reluctant to stride forward, so when the next is pitched up he's stuck on his crease and either bowled, lbw or nicks off if a bit wider, it makes the batter tentative in his foot movements.

Great bowling from Stuart as he didn't need the bouncer as the Windies batters seemed reluctant to get that stride in anyway

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Re England, I think they keep that 4 together for the first 2 tests at least. If they win both maybe Curran and Wood can change in.

Bess is interesting to me. I think he is one they may look at to come out. If we bowllike we did in this test atch, you just don't need a spinner. If you have 5 bowlers+ Root they can all be rested. More medium term, I like Bess a lot, but conversely I do wonder if he hás to imrpove his batting as much as his bowling to cement a place. I think they'd love him to be a number 7 and bowler who bowls every so often. I think both he and Currans bets chance to force their way in is to improve their batting.

The more I think about it, if conditions are seam friendly again and spin unlikely to be needed, especially given Bess is still not the finished article, then I too am coming round to just dropping Bess for the extra batter even if it does mean five seamers

 

[Bruce Wayne]

You've got to fancy England strongly against Pakistan, who really lack depth in both batting and bowling, especially in English conditions. The bowling is no concern, and I'm hoping Burns, Sibley and Pope use the opportunity to really cement their spots in the team.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

I think England have a wonderful chance to start a series properly for once maybe catching them cold and going one up for once. Arguably only the strange ommision of Broad and the even stranger choice of stand in captain Stokes to bat first in perfect overcast bowling conditions in the first, put them on the back foot in this the last series, but it's a pattern they keep repeating and overturning first test losses is something they don't want to have to do. In New Zealand in the two test 'non-series' - what a nonsense and a blight on test cricket these two one-off so called series are, they didn't even have an opportunity to try and overturn, and then again in South Africa where they overturned a first test loss. I think last year's drawn ashes series also followed the same pattern from memory although haven't checked and could be wrong.

Pakistan are strong in seam bowling with plenty of depth unlike the West Indies but also crucially have an 'on paper' stronger batting line up led by the red hot Babar Azam who is in a really rich vein of form in his last few tests with centuries or a half centuries virtually guaranteed every time

Their main star is Shaheen Afridi a left arm pace bowler who impressed in the recent world cup, they also have Mohammed Abbas ' Philander like' with all his experience of county cricket, crucially he'll be used to our conditions. The experienced left arm quickie Wahab Riaz is also here to add all his know how but perhaps most intriguing is the new young star in the making Naseem Shah, who made his debut last year at only 16!!! He's a right arm fast bowler and real prodigy of Pakistan cricket. On 9 February this year, in the first Test against Bangladesh, at the age of only 16, he became the youngest bowler to take a Test hat-trick. They seem to just have a conveyor belt of good seamers and always have had TBF, I suppose just following in the tradition of Imran Khan, Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram.

Unfortunately Mohammed Amir, what a good seamer he was, retired earlier this year (I think) from tests and will only make the ODI's which follow the series.

The problem has always been which Pakistan turn up, but unlike their neighbours India, they have a reasonable record when touring this country and we should be in for a hugely competitive series.