Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Amw79]

I asked at third and fourth vax, where was the other option that had been my only option* for the first two (I also had my paperwork) on both occasions I was informed that it had been withdrawn. My 'why?' was met with 'don't know'.
I understand the tightrope of not wanting to admit the threat from blood clots was significantly higher than had been admitted, and that to climb down over promises of safety undermined the vax program from there, but to ignore that part of the roll out and the associated untruths crushes any faith in anything they said. If that type of vax then wasn't deemed safe anymore, all recipients ought to have been written to to explain why and update the long term health possibilities that were undercut from the initial announcement.
Quite simply, is there a brain blood clot timebomb waiting out their in society? Will it manifest as an epidemic of sudden strokes? What's the timeline on any expectant risk of harm? Are measures and specialists in place if a sudden mass of brain damaged patients arrive en masse?
This lack of information and perceived lack of planning could be used by the unscrupulous to whip up a panic...

If you’re talking about the AstraZeneca one, yeah it was withdrawn, in part because it had the associated blood clot link which the other vaccines didn’t.

My understanding is that is was still massively low frequency, but if there’s a vaccine that doesn’t have that specific risk, then sensible to prefer that one.

Thing to remember is that vaccine trials were massive - tens of thousands of people - absolutely huge for a vaccine. But even so, if there’s a side effect that’s 1 in 100,000, then it’s likely that the trial won’t pick that up, as it’s too low frequency to be spotted.

In terms of long term risk, its obviously impossible to say until time passes, but as far as I know vaccine side effects happen in the first month, and tend to be a reaction to the body’s immune response. The blood clot, myocarditis are all a side effect of a persons specific immune response.

In fact for all the talk of myocarditis, it’s a well known vaccine side effect in other vaccines, most notably smallpox, but again is low frequency enough to be an acceptable trade off, as well as the fact that myocarditis and blood clots happened in response to the virus itself (at higher rates, I think), specifically because those side effects are down to the body’s immune response.

People want black and white answers. “It’s 100% safe, it’s 100% effective” or “it’s useless, it’s lethal” and are less persuaded by boring conversations about balance of risk and acceptable trade offs.

 

[RAFUH]

Think this is just a bit much to say tbh.

People were very, very careful in a lot of settings and COVID still spread to people and still killed them.

It wasn't all down to people being reckless.

Globally, I'll agree, but for my particular situation, I'll disagree given what I know about the situations.

 

[Amw79]

The myth, that was encouraged, that being vaccinated, stops you infecting other people, should`ve been shut down immediately, but instead it was encouraged, as was the witch hunt against those who chose not get vaccinated.

As in my above post, this is a function of people wanting black and white certainties.

The reality is the vaccine reduced (not stopped) your chances of infecting others, via a couple of mechanisms - those recently vaccinated coming into contact with the virus who didn’t get sick, had a lower viral load, so less likely to pass on, as well as being infectious for a reduced period.

It wasn’t a clear all or nothing thing, but who had time for nuance in 2020-21.

 

[Moomin]

I`ve had all my jab, and I`m not anti vax in any shape or form, but the demonization of anyone, who chose not to get vaccinated, was shocking and almost became a state and media encouraged form of discrimination.

There was actual discussions going on, about forcibly vaccinating people against there will.

I`m not talking about the right wing, 5g, tin foil hat nutters, I`m talking about people, who were " unsure " about what to do and wanted to wait and see before making a decision.

The myth, that was encouraged, that being vaccinated, stops you infecting other people, should`ve been shut down immediately, but instead it was encouraged, as was the witch hunt against those who chose not get vaccinated.

Who actually said that being vaccinated stopped you infecting other people? I can't remember who said that. I remember adverts saying help your family by getting vaccinated.

I do remember the experts saying it would reduce the effects of Covid and reduce the chances of ending up in hospital.

 

[RAFUH]

I didn’t realize “endemic” had an epidemiological definition! I have seen it in biology but had to look up the context in which you used it. I didn’t look up the definitions but it seems that…

Endemic = background rate of infection in a given area
Epidemic = elevated rates of infection in a given area
Pandemic = elevated rates of infection everywhere

Also, I'm feeling quite pleased with myself that I taught (or made you learn) you something.


Never fear though, I will say/do something soon (likely tech related) that pops that balloon.

 

[COYBL25]

As in my above post, this is a function of people wanting black and white certainties.

The reality is the vaccine reduced (not stopped) your chances of infecting others, via a couple of mechanisms - those recently vaccinated coming into contact with the virus who didn’t get sick, had a lower viral load, so less likely to pass on, as well as being infectious for a reduced period.

It wasn’t a clear all or nothing thing, but who had time for nuance in 2020-21.

Which should`ve been clearly and repeatedly explained over and over again, until the public got the message.

However the government and some sections of the MSM, in this country, chose to push the narrative, that anyone who chose not to get vaccinated, was a MURDERER ( remember that lol )

Yet, they conveniently chose to keep quite about the massive elephant in the room, that certain ethnic communities, where amongst the least vaccinated, due to a traditional mistrust of the government and the authorities.

 

[spectateur]

Over the past few years we have seen attacks on scientists and experts by the right wing to push a populist agenda.

We are turning into the US of A but probably going worse

I haven't lived in the UK for a long time now.
Looking at It from the outside It strongly appears that you're right.

 

[COYBL25]

Who actually said that being vaccinated stopped you infecting other people? I can't remember who said that. I remember adverts saying help your family by getting vaccinated.

I do remember the experts saying it would reduce the effects of Covid and reduce the chances of ending up in hospital.

There`s pages and pages of stuff, on how being vaccinated would stop you infecting others.

This was the encouraged perception, that the general public had.

You only have to go back a few pages, to see the dogs abuse @MikeH72 got over this exact topic.

 

[Moomin]

There`s pages and pages of stuff, on how being vaccinated would stop you infecting others.

This was the encouraged perception, that the general public had.

You only have to go back a few pages, to see the dogs abuse @MikeH72 got over this exact topic.

The likes of Pfizer didn't say anything regarding transmission as they never tested for that.

Last year when they were asked in the European courts and they confirmed they never tested for that a load of people and the likes of GB News thought it was a massive gotcha.

It wasn't until 6 months after the first lot of vaccinations that it was confirmed in the numbers that being vaccinated reduced transmission and them reports never came out till in mid 2021.

 

[Rita_Poon]

If you’re talking about the AstraZeneca one, yeah it was withdrawn, in part because it had the associated blood clot link which the other vaccines didn’t.

My understanding is that is was still massively low frequency, but if there’s a vaccine that doesn’t have that specific risk, then sensible to prefer that one.

Thing to remember is that vaccine trials were massive - tens of thousands of people - absolutely huge for a vaccine. But even so, if there’s a side effect that’s 1 in 100,000, then it’s likely that the trial won’t pick that up, as it’s too low frequency to be spotted.

In terms of long term risk, its obviously impossible to say until time passes, but as far as I know vaccine side effects happen in the first month, and tend to be a reaction to the body’s immune response. The blood clot, myocarditis are all a side effect of a persons specific immune response.

In fact for all the talk of myocarditis, it’s a well known vaccine side effect in other vaccines, most notably smallpox, but again is low frequency enough to be an acceptable trade off, as well as the fact that myocarditis and blood clots happened in response to the virus itself (at higher rates, I think), specifically because those side effects are down to the body’s immune response.

People want black and white answers. “It’s 100% safe, it’s 100% effective” or “it’s useless, it’s lethal” and are less persuaded by boring conversations about balance of risk and acceptable trade offs.

"With further testing as well as roll out data, we have decided that although the risk is miniscule, the AZ vax is being withdrawn at this point pre the third round of jabs, this is because we have stocks of the others that at this time appear better suited with even fewer potential side effects. We thank AZ for their speedy roll out as we couldn't have began the process as early or as widespread without them, and as this was a race against a virus that is still taking lives their input has been invaluable.
Please keep up with the rounds of variant vaccine we have spent your billions on, the safety and longevity of the public is paramount. We are beating this and we will beat it to then be able to return to life as we knew it. We are closer to the end than we are the beginning. Gods speed and rule Brittania*"

*I just had to throw some pompous in...

 

[COYBL25]

The likes of Pfizer didn't say anything regarding transmission as they never tested for that.

Last year when they were asked in the European courts and they confirmed they never tested for that a load of people and the likes of GB News thought it was a massive gotcha.

It wasn't until 6 months after the first lot of vaccinations that it was confirmed in the numbers that being vaccinated reduced transmission and them reports never came out till in mid 2021.

I`m not saying it came from the Pharma companies, as it didn`t it came from the government and press, who pushed the " MURDERERS" narrative onto people who chose not to get vaccinated.

 

[Moomin]

I`m not saying it came from the Pharma companies, as it didn`t it came from the government and press, who pushed the " MURDERERS" narrative onto people who chose not to get vaccinated.

The likes of the Mail and Express needed to have a holiday and demonise someone other than immigrants for a while.

 

[MikeH72]

There`s pages and pages of stuff, on how being vaccinated would stop you infecting others.

This was the encouraged perception, that the general public had.

You only have to go back a few pages, to see the dogs abuse @MikeH72 got over this exact topic.

No one on here wanted to listen to the science regarding natural immunity either. It was a taboo topic, you just weren’t allowed to talk about it. Some people weren’t following “the science” at all, they were following the government, they just can’t admit that.

 

[MikeH72]

Who actually said that being vaccinated stopped you infecting other people? I can't remember who said that. I remember adverts saying help your family by getting vaccinated.

I do remember the experts saying it would reduce the effects of Covid and reduce the chances of ending up in hospital.

Natural immunity also did that, but you weren’t allowed to say that at a certain point in time. People also picked and chose what experts to listen to and which ones were “discredited” based on their politics, don’t forget that. To say it was always all about science is completely false.

 

[COYBL25]

No one on here wanted to listen to the science regarding natural immunity either. It was a taboo topic, you just weren’t allowed to talk about it. Some people weren’t following “the science” at all, they were following the government, they just can’t admit that.

And there lies a really big potential problem ( imo ), if we ever find ourselves here again, as people will be naturally be very sceptical of anything that comes from the government.