Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

I sign off with some extracts from the bmj. I'm assuming that is a credible source of information and not on the got banned list of credible sources.

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5








All bollocks though right?

Nobody is saying - well, I'm not - that the vaccines don't work

They are saying that this rhetoric that unvaccinated people are the only issue is stupid, as is suggesting that covid sends most people it infects to hospital

and I'll stress again, I have no idea why anyone wouldn't take up the vaccine to give their bodies a bit of help with this thing, even if their bodies would, 9/10, have a strong enough response to the virus to keep them out of hospital or from getting sick.

Let's not forget that 1/3 people with covid show no symptoms at all. That's with or without the vaccines.

 

[BlueToff]

The data is there backing up what I am saying. Both in age groups and percentages unvaccinated seriously ill.

Unless the general consensus is that the majority of seriously ill unvaccinated patients are also old and/or vunerable. Which I don't believe to be the case at all now.

That would be hitting a significantly small amount of people in the country in comparison to the millions younger unvaccinated.


Again none of my posts have suggested that. I've only ever talked about the people who do go into hospital with covid and are seriously ill.

If you are all telling me I'm wrong then so be it. Can't really say much more.

But if so many seriously ill are unvaccinated and have been for months now , and the lowest rates of vaccinations are in the 18-29 age group , connect the dots there!

The original post I quoted seemed to be implying that which is why I was baffled by it. If I'm wrong then I apologise.

On your last part, I agree, I've not said I don't. People should get vaccinated. If they choose not to that's their choice. The health service has to be there for them if they need it. That's what it's for. Just like it has to be there for fat heffers who eat themselves into a heart attack

 

[Ghost Rider]

You have given me absolutely nothing with any ages in there. So yes you are talking bollocks.

I do love this attitude that people have on the internet. Dismissing anything that doesn't suit their own opinion without FACTS FACTS FACTS but it's always fine to dismiss it without providing the opposite side of the coin.

Both sides of the discussion as well do it. There is a difference between disagreeing with someone and venturing into the right and wrong argument.

I've given you sources from the BMJ. If that's not good enough then there isn't much more I can add to it with you.

 

[MikeH72]

The data is there backing up what I am saying. Both in age groups and percentages unvaccinated seriously ill.

Unless the general consensus is that the majority of seriously ill unvaccinated patients are also old and/or vunerable. Which I don't believe to be the case at all now.

That would be hitting a significantly small amount of people in the country in comparison to the millions younger unvaccinated.


Again none of my posts have suggested that. I've only ever talked about the people who do go into hospital with covid and are seriously ill.

If you are all telling me I'm wrong then so be it. Can't really say much more.

But if so many seriously ill are unvaccinated and have been for months now , and the lowest rates of vaccinations are in the 18-29 age group , connect the dots there!

You are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 487 I’m afraid.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Nobody is saying - well, I'm not - that the vaccines don't work

They are saying that this rhetoric that unvaccinated people are the only issue is stupid, as is suggesting that covid sends most people it infects to hospital

and I'll stress again, I have no idea why anyone wouldn't take up the vaccine to give their bodies a bit of help with this thing, even if their bodies would, 9/10, have a strong enough response to the virus to keep them out of hospital or from getting sick.

Let's not forget that 1/3 people with covid show no symptoms at all. That's with or without the vaccines.

So essentially I'm back to the question I asked earlier.

Who exactly are in the hospital beds?

 

[Ghost Rider]

You are putting 2 and 2 together and getting 487 I’m afraid.

So you believe it's just elderly and vunerable in hospital with covid still then? Vaccinated or not?

 

[MikeH72]

So you believe it's just elderly and vunerable in hospital with covid still then? Vaccinated or not?

Yes because it is.

 

[BlueToff]

So essentially I'm back to the question I asked earlier.

Who exactly are in the hospital beds?

Vaccinated people who are vulnerable for whatever reason, and unvaccinated people who are vulnerable, and more at risk because they haven't been vaccinated.

And, people who aren't vaccinated who do not class as vulnerable may take up some of those beds. But I'd imagine very few.

I imagine,by and large, that's the case.

 

[MikeH72]

Vaccinated people who are vulnerable for whatever reason, and unvaccinated people who are vulnerable, and more at risk because they haven't been vaccinated.

I imagine,by and large, that's the case.

I cannot believe you’re having to explain this to someone.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Vaccinated people who are vulnerable for whatever reason, and unvaccinated people who are vulnerable, and more at risk because they haven't been vaccinated.

And, people who aren't vaccinated who do not class as vulnerable may take up some of those beds. But I'd imagine very few.

I imagine,by and large, that's the case.

I cannot believe you’re having to explain this to someone.

Ok gotcha

So all of this is for nothing then. Doesn't matter if we lockdown , wear masks , get all the vaccinations in the world etc.

The majority of people going into hospital due to covid according to you both is the same people on day one as it is now.

So it doesn't matter what we do then?

 

[MikeH72]

Ok gotcha

So all of this is for nothing then. Doesn't matter if we lockdown , wear masks , get all the vaccinations in the world etc.

The majority of people going into hospital due to covid according to you both is the same people on day one as it is now.

So it doesn't matter what we do then?

Because maybe, like you even acknowledged earlier, the vaccines are stopping vulnerable people actually dying??

 

[BlueToff]

Ok gotcha

So all of this is for nothing then. Doesn't matter if we lockdown , wear masks , get all the vaccinations in the world etc.

The majority of people going into hospital due to covid according to you both is the same people on day one as it is now.

So it doesn't matter what we do then?

Omicron is milder than any other strain so far and that is true for unvaccinated and vaccinated people.

However, there is still more relative risk if you aren't vaccinated than if you are unvaccianted. There's relative and absolute risk - the two different kinds of risk. The absolute risk of COVID is very low for everybody. The relative risk, however, is higher for people who aren't vaccinated than those who are.

So, get vaccinated, you give yourself more protection. On top of that, stay healthy, eat well, do your body a favour. All that jazz.

But yes,the majority of people who go into hospital with COVID are, in some way, vulnerable. I don't see what's hard to grasp about that? You can be vaccinated and still be vulnerable. However, you've given yourself a better chance (reduced the relative risk) because you are vaccinated.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[Ghost Rider]

Because maybe, like you even acknowledged earlier, the vaccines are stopping vulnerable people actually dying??

But they are still dying though? So it's unavoidable with this logic. No matter what we do vunerable and elderly will die from covid.

I'm not talking a complete 100% stopping of such an occurrence here but the numbers are still running from 700 to 1000 a week. That's still a big chunk of weekly deaths iregardless of everything else thrown in. That figure hasn't changed much for a while now. It's lower than it was but the levelled out figure is still 100-150 a day give or take.

So if the elderly and vunerable are still at risk from covid now as they were before, even if you have decreased the number a little bit, then you can't prevent that ever from not happening. Doesn't matter how many vaccines you have if it isn't preventing 100s from dying still every single week from it.

So then logically , why are we still running the same circle again if it's unavoidable and only affecting largely those two groups?

How do we stop that?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Omicron is milder than any other strain so far and that is true for unvaccinated and vaccinated people.

However, there is still more relative risk if you aren't vaccinated than if you are unvaccianted. There's relative and absolute risk - the two different kinds of risk. The absolute risk of COVID is very low for everybody. The relative risk, however, is higher for people who aren't vaccinated than those who are.

So, get vaccinated, you give yourself more protection. On top of that, stay healthy, eat well, do your body a favour. All that jazz.

But yes,the majority of people who go into hospital with COVID are, in some way, vulnerable. I don't see what's hard to grasp about that? You can be vaccinated and still be vulnerable. However, you've given yourself a better chance (reduced the relative risk) because you are vaccinated.

Like I said to Mike.

Then all of this is for nothing really? If the whole point is to protect the old and vunerable even now and we still aren't doing it to the tune of hundreds every single week , then none of this is an answer to the problem

See when I thought it was mainly unvaccinated , that was a logical answer to the problem as to why things aren't improving. But if things aren't improving no matter what we do, and the figures were largely similar for months , then we are all protecting the people who ultimately make up the statistics anyway hospital and death wise.

So it's unavoidable basically.