Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Ghost Rider]

Sorry, that's not the issue the health service has.

The issue is 10+ years of austerity and managed decline from this tory government, readying it for privatisation- covid isn't helping, but there's a crisis every winter, and the system is stretched all year round.

Yet with additional beds taken up and more staff missing, that isn't Tory fault.

If record number of staff are off isolating then that's the problem. Winter is a higher demand , absolutely. But if there is significantly less staff to treat people and less beds for the demand then budget cuts or not, that's why there is a much bigger demand on the service. Argubally the staffing issue is worse this year due to the variant.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Do you have any data on the ages of people that are taking up hospital beds?

Do you?

 

[MikeH72]

Do you?

Hang on, you’re the one claiming that it’s all young people taking up hospital beds??

 

[NathDogg]

Yes.

Gerrin right on my Eartha Kitts all this rhetoric and nonsense.

The blaming of the unvaccinated for causing the pressure and problems to the NHS is absolutley dispicable from this government and its advisors, and macron should be ashamed of himself for his outburst today.

Get the vaccine - good for you.

Don't get the vaccine - good for you.

It's your choice.

The government's want us divided and the sheeples are lapping it up.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Well as of last week, 75% of the people in hospital with the new variant, in England, were vaccinated. That's the latest data available.

With or of?

Going back to something I have said before. If the new variant is more transmissible to the extent that everyone is catching it, including you and others in this thread, friends of mine , work colleagues etc. Record number of positive tests every day to the tune of millions since the start of December.

How can they not cross over? We have millions of cases but not millions of hospital admissions. Given that people do go into hospital for a whole host of reasons, the likelihood of someone being in hospital with covid rather than of has increased exponentially, even if they aren't there for covid to begin with.

So saying 75% are vaccinated in hospital means nothing. It doesn't tell you they are there because of covid or in spite of it. It doesn't tell you whether they are ill with covid or not.

What that number does tell you is that a lot of hospital cases generally are vaccinated, which anyone would know given the amount of vaccinations given now.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If it's not younger / unvaccinated people then it's older people that are vaccinated. Which means the vaccinations aren't working? Which isn't true, they are literally designed to stop that happening.

Not a vaccine out there in the world that protects all people equally.

"Immunosenescence" is a thing, immune efficacy will degrade with age, vaccine or not. And as with all respiratory pathogens the elderly generally experience the most severe forms of disease and the highest death rates. Although influenza can be killer in the very young.

Its all about reducing the risk as much as possible and vaccines were one of a few measures arguably the most effective but by no means the only measure.

 

[Wizard]

Well yes and no. The Aus Open and Aus government initially accepted it. It's only after the backlash that they've gone back on it and said it's an issue with his visa (which it may well be).

His reasoning is, apparently, that because he had COVID within six months before he was due to be vaccinated, he didn't get the vaccine.

Now I think that's a BS reason too but again it's his choice.

I'm torn here, as I absolutely agree that you can't just have exceptions because you're the world's best player. However, I absolutely hate the fact that vaccination is mandatory to get anywhere. I hate it, I hate that this is the way the world's going. If he's tested negative, then he should be allowed in. And that should be the same for every single person visiting every single country. It's their choice not to get vaccinated but simultaneously they have to take on the extra onus/stress of testing and therefore being extra careful not to get COVID.

I wouldn't mind as much if the vaccines were proven to be 100% effective at stopping you catch it, but they aren't. Christ, I should know, had my two jabs and had COVID bloody twice all in the space of six months, and will have my booster in 4 weeks.

First part of what you say is incorrect. The Aussie Open and the Victoria government passed him. Almost immediately the Federal government said he would still have to pass their border checks to enter the country. Evidently he has not done that. Which isn’t a huge surprise as his exemption argument seemed like complete bull from the start.

As for the rest of what you have said that isn’t the point in this case. Whether you like the laws or not has been discussed many times. In this particular case it doesn’t matter. If the Australian government have said he hasn’t met the requirements then tough luck. He has to be treated like any other person entering Australia.

Look, maybe it will turn out he can provide proof of a medical exemption and he’ll be allowed to play. If not, see you later.

 

[BlueToff]

First part of what you say is incorrect. The Aussie Open and the Victoria government passed him. Almost immediately the Federal government said he would still have to pass their border checks to enter the country. Evidently he has not done that. Which isn’t a huge surprise as his exemption argument seemed like complete bull from the start.

As for the rest of what you have said that isn’t the point in this case. Whether you like the laws or not has been discussed many times. In this particular case it doesn’t matter. If the Australian government have said he hasn’t met the requirements then tough luck. He has to be treated like any other person entering Australia.

Look, maybe it will turn out he can provide proof of a medical exemption and he’ll be allowed to play. If not, see you later.

Yeah like I said, and made pretty clear I thought, even though I don't agree with the rules, they are the rules and he can't be an exception to it.

 

[Martin Alvito]

First part of what you say is incorrect. The Aussie Open and the Victoria government passed him. Almost immediately the Federal government said he would still have to pass their border checks to enter the country. Evidently he has not done that. Which isn’t a huge surprise as his exemption argument seemed like complete bull from the start.

As for the rest of what you have said that isn’t the point in this case. Whether you like the laws or not has been discussed many times. In this particular case it doesn’t matter. If the Australian government have said he hasn’t met the requirements then tough luck. He has to be treated like any other person entering Australia.

Look, maybe it will turn out he can provide proof of a medical exemption and he’ll be allowed to play. If not, see you later.

It's too easy for the government to look strong here by hitting Djokovic, and very difficult for them not to make that move. Letting him in given the government's previous hard-line stance creates the appearance that celebrities are above rules that apply to "ordinary" people.

I was very surprised yesterday when the parties were saying that Djokovic would play.

 

[BlueToff]

With or of?

Going back to something I have said before. If the new variant is more transmissible to the extent that everyone is catching it, including you and others in this thread, friends of mine , work colleagues etc. Record number of positive tests every day to the tune of millions since the start of December.

How can they not cross over? We have millions of cases but not millions of hospital admissions. Given that people do go into hospital for a whole host of reasons, the likelihood of someone being in hospital with covid rather than of has increased exponentially, even if they aren't there for covid to begin with.

So saying 75% are vaccinated in hospital means nothing. It doesn't tell you they are there because of covid or in spite of it. It doesn't tell you whether they are ill with covid or not.

What that number does tell you is that a lot of hospital cases generally are vaccinated, which anyone would know given the amount of vaccinations given now.

It's all being counted together in those stats so we don't know based on the official ones. Other people have those stats, if you try and find them. But of the confirmed Omicron cases in hospital as of December 30, in England, according to the government, 75% were vaccinated and 25% unvaccinated. That doesn't say whether they'd had one jab or 2 jabs or all three.

It seems like you are acting like everyone who gets covid goes into hospital if they aren't vaccinated and that is simply not the case.

I agree on your last part. I'm pro vax.

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[Ghost Rider]

Hang on, you’re the one claiming that it’s all young people taking up hospital beds??

I sign off with some extracts from the bmj. I'm assuming that is a credible source of information and not on the got banned list of credible sources.

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5

The Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre (ICNARC), which has been monitoring activity throughout the pandemic, provides information on admissions to intensive care.3 Its latest report, published on 31 December, showed that the proportion of patients admitted to critical care in December 2021 with confirmed covid-19 who were unvaccinated was 61%. This proportion had previously fallen from 75% in May 2021 to 47% in October 2021—consistent with the decreasing proportion of the general population who were unvaccinated—before rising again in December 2021.

The proportion of unvaccinated patients in intensive care varied by English region, with the highest rates recorded in London (66%), the south west, and the north west. Being unvaccinated was classed as a person having no record of receiving any vaccination or having had a first dose administered within 14 days of receiving a positive covid test, and only 1.9% of the “unvaccinated” group had received a first dose within that period.

The 61% figure is lower than the 80-90% reported at some hospitals. But the latest ICNARC data span only to 15 December, and the proportion of patients in intensive care who are unvaccinated may have increased as the omicron variant spread in December. Some hospitals will also have been more badly affected than others.

Further analysis by the agency has concluded that unvaccinated adults are as much as eight times more likely to be admitted to hospital than those who have been vaccinated and that booster doses are 88% effective at preventing hospital admission.

The Office for National Statistics’ latest report on deaths from covid-19 covering the period from January to October last year in England found that the age adjusted rate of death was 96% lower in people who had received a second dose of vaccine than in those who were unvaccinated.

All bollocks though right?

 

[BlueToff]

Gerrin right on my Eartha Kitts all this rhetoric and nonsense.

The blaming of the unvaccinated for causing the pressure and problems to the NHS is absolutley dispicable from this government and its advisors, and macron should be ashamed of himself for his outburst today.

Get the vaccine - good for you.

Don't get the vaccine - good for you.

It's your choice.

The government's want us divided and the sheeples are lapping it up.

I don't think the British government, yet, has blamed the unvaccinated. I myself think not getting the vaccine is daft, I've had this discussion on here. But I don't think people who don't get it should be second class citizens.

The only argument you can make, IMO, in the regard of judging people who don't get vaccinated is that they are making themselves more at risk and therefore more at risk of burdening the health service. But, you can by the same token apply that to everybody who drinks, smokes, eats badly etc.

 

[MikeH72]

I sign off with some extracts from the bmj. I'm assuming that is a credible source of information and not on the got banned list of credible sources.

https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o5








All bollocks though right?

You have given me absolutely nothing with any ages in there. So yes you are talking bollocks.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Not a vaccine out there in the world that protects all people equally.

"Immunosenescence" is a thing, immune efficacy will degrade with age, vaccine or not. And as with all respiratory pathogens the elderly generally experience the most severe forms of disease and the highest death rates. Although influenza can be killer in the very young.

Its all about reducing the risk as much as possible and vaccines were one of a few measures arguably the most effective but by no means the only measure.

The data is there backing up what I am saying. Both in age groups and percentages unvaccinated seriously ill.

Unless the general consensus is that the majority of seriously ill unvaccinated patients are also old and/or vunerable. Which I don't believe to be the case at all now.

That would be hitting a significantly small amount of people in the country in comparison to the millions younger unvaccinated.

It's all being counted together in those stats so we don't know based on the official ones. Other people have those stats, if you try and find them. But of the confirmed Omicron cases in hospital as of December 30, in England, according to the government, 75% were vaccinated and 25% unvaccinated. That doesn't say whether they'd had one jab or 2 jabs or all three.

It seems like you are acting like everyone who gets covid goes into hospital if they aren't vaccinated and that is simply not the case.

I agree on your last part. I'm pro vax.

Again none of my posts have suggested that. I've only ever talked about the people who do go into hospital with covid and are seriously ill.

If you are all telling me I'm wrong then so be it. Can't really say much more.

But if so many seriously ill are unvaccinated and have been for months now , and the lowest rates of vaccinations are in the 18-29 age group , connect the dots there!