Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Neiler said:
Disagree mate and im not antivax - have had my three doses.

Why not make it mandatory for everyone then, you said last week you were hesitant about getting a booster mate - thats a fundamental human right you are entitled to but would be in favour of denying others, why decant personal agency and bodily integrity and rights for one cohort of society and not the other.
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TBF with this though that boat (of mandatory vaccination for certain things in certain roles) has long since sailed. Not sure about the fire brigades but frontline NHS and Police have had to be vaccinated against Hep B for many years, for much the same reason as why vaccination is required here.

If a person is in a frontline NHS role and is refusing to get this without a medical reason then the NHS really should be looking into why not - I mean just the legal ramifications (of a Trust's responsibility for knowingly exposing them to a massively increased COVID risk compared to a vaccinated person) are bad enough.

Then there is the wider implications of why it is they as a healthcare professional have looked on the one hand at science, and at the other of grifters on Facebook and chosen the latter; certainly if an oncology doctor did that and started going on about certain types of honey / garlic / salt / prayer (which they'd then sell you) being better choices than chemo most people would question why that person is employed.
 
tsubaki said:
TBF with this though that boat (of mandatory vaccination for certain things in certain roles) has long since sailed. Not sure about the fire brigades but frontline NHS and Police have had to be vaccinated against Hep B for many years, for much the same reason as why vaccination is required here.

If a person is in a frontline NHS role and is refusing to get this without a medical reason then the NHS really should be looking into why not - I mean just the legal ramifications (of a Trust's responsibility for knowingly exposing them to a massively increased COVID risk compared to a vaccinated person) are bad enough.

Then there is the wider implications of why it is they as a healthcare professional have looked on the one hand at science, and at the other of grifters on Facebook and chosen the latter; certainly if an oncology doctor did that and started going on about certain types of honey / garlic / salt / prayer (which they'd then sell you) being better choices than chemo most people would question why that person is employed.
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I vaguely remember getting my Hep B - it might actually have been in the NHS. But i also remember giving written consent and understanding the risks etc to get it. It was starting a role somewhere, so if i declined im not 100% sure whether i would have been taken or not. I suspect given the shortages in the system, its recommended but id be surprised if its mandatory, i say you could get away with it if you signed a disclaimer saying you understood the risks not holding the hospital/trust/service etc responsible and you were exercising personal informed choice or agency. There will be people working without Hep B as not everyone can get it. The science isn't the issue for me its the principal of informed consent, its a fundamental human right, same way BT has of FB29 have a right to be hesitant over the booster and make a choice in regard to their personal agency, informed consent and bodily integrity.

When it comes to mandatory vaccination, i think there is also a principal of equity. Essentially you can have two people in a room. A health care professional and member of society. One is being forced into mandatory vaccination, the other has a right to decide not to take the vaccine or not and put the health care worker, all those they re caring, their colleagues and their families at risk. If mandatory vaccines are imposed to keep the public safe, it doesn't seem equitable to me that a member of society can put health care workers and those in their work/care/social system at risk, by exercising the same right that was denied the health care worker. If you are going to mandate mandatory vaccines - why not do it for everyone - why the hesitancy around doing it if the principal is sound?
 
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tsubaki said:
TBF with this though that boat (of mandatory vaccination for certain things in certain roles) has long since sailed. Not sure about the fire brigades but frontline NHS and Police have had to be vaccinated against Hep B for many years, for much the same reason as why vaccination is required here.

If a person is in a frontline NHS role and is refusing to get this without a medical reason then the NHS really should be looking into why not - I mean just the legal ramifications (of a Trust's responsibility for knowingly exposing them to a massively increased COVID risk compared to a vaccinated person) are bad enough.

Then there is the wider implications of why it is they as a healthcare professional have looked on the one hand at science, and at the other of grifters on Facebook and chosen the latter; certainly if an oncology doctor did that and started going on about certain types of honey / garlic / salt / prayer (which they'd then sell you) being better choices than chemo most people would question why that person is employed.
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What people are not grasping is that the Hep B, Yellow Fever and Flu jabs have been tweaked over many years and apart from the usual side effects its very rare you'll get any harmful after effects bar the allergic reaction danger.

We've seen deadly blood clots, Myocarditis, Pericarditis, GBS syndrome, strokes amongst others from a vaccine thats only been in circulation for 12-18 months.

Everyone has the right to refuse it if they deem fit. I personally think most over 18's should get double jabbed and the over 50's given the booster annually but thats about it until we have tweaked them to the point that allergic reaction aside any other serious side effect is 1 in millions particularly in the young who have little danger of getting seriously ill with COVID statistically.

The FDA recently estimated upto 1 in 5000 16-17 year old males can get Myocarditis from the MRNA jabs and we are talking about mandatory vaccination ffs.
 
Neiler said:
I vaguely remember getting my Hep B - it might actually have been in the NHS. But i also remember giving written consent and understanding the risks etc to get it. It was starting a role somewhere, so if i declined im not 100% sure whether i would have been taken or not. I suspect given the shortages in the system, its recommended but id be surprised if its mandatory, i say you could get away with it if you signed a disclaimer saying you understood the risks not holding the hospital/trust/service etc responsible and you were exercising personal informed choice or agency. There will be people working without Hep B as not everyone can get it. The science isn't the issue for me its the principal of informed consent, its a fundamental human right, same way BT has of FB29 have a right to be hesitant over the booster and make a choice in regard to their personal agency, informed consent and bodily integrity.

When it comes to mandatory vaccination, i think there is also a principal of equity. Essentially you can have two people in a room. A health care professional and member of society. One is being forced into mandatory vaccination, the other has a right to decide not to take the vaccine or not and put the health care worker, all those they re caring, their colleagues and their families at risk. If mandatory vaccines are imposed to keep the public safe, it doesn't seem equitable to me that a member of society can put health care workers and those in their work/care/social system at risk, by exercising the same right that was denied the health care worker. If you are going to mandate mandatory vaccines - why not do it for everyone - why the hesitancy around doing it if the principal is sound?
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I think its because of the risk level. The vast majority of people here and in the country are not going to face anywhere near the risk that someone working in (for example) A&E, on an ambulance or in a COVID ward are. For reasons I've already said I don't support mandatory vaccinations anyway, especially given the circumstances why they appear to be going down that road. However for anyone who the state is going to tell to do something (treat COVID patients, go to people collapsed in the street, retrieve bodies from homes where someone's died of COVID) I think the case is well made.

For most things personal choice should apply, but for this when an employer (the NHS in this case) knows there is a huge risk I don't think you could (or should) go down the sign here so we can't be sued route - I mean, the NHS knows they aren't vaccinated and it knows its lost numerous staff to it; asking them to just palm that risk off would be like the Army knowing someone can't throw grenades far enough and then asking them to sign a bit of paper to say they accept the risk of throwing grenades.

I'd also really want to know why a member of staff is of that opinion as well, because if they feel that strongly about something (in that they put their careers at risk) which has so little backing and so much disinformation around it then you'd have to wonder what else it is they believe and what impact that has on the rest of their work.

I mean we probably all like to think that there are philosophical people who have reasoned arguments against the vaccine and who keep those opinions to themselves, advising others in an appropriate way but the reality is the vast majority of them are either loons or overly influenced by loons, neither of which should really be considered safe around other people's health.
 
God he's a bellend


20211119_162816.jpg
 
Billy Dean said:
Pretty spot on for me

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But vaccines make sure you stay healthy even if you interact with someone who is unvaccinated. You cannot vaccinate 7 billion people anyway, I have got to trust the vaccine I received and move on.

If these people are ok with not visiting cafes, flying nowhere, you just cannot vaccinate someone who is home 7/24 against his or her consent.
 
A third of the staff that "NHS" Test and Trace employs are, in fact, consultants. Earlier this year it was as high as 51%. The firms involved are charging up to £6000 a day for a single member of staff:

www.theguardian.com

England’s Covid test and trace spending over £1m a day on consultants

Exclusive: revelations follow MPs’ criticism of flagship service as ‘eye-watering’ waste of taxpayers’ money
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Anyone who wants to understand why the "NHS" Test and Trace programme has been such an abject and expensive failure should really start there.
 
Billy Dean said:
www.theguardian.com

ICU is full of the unvaccinated – my patience with them is wearing thin | Anonymous

Most of the resources we are devoting to Covid in hospital are being spent on people who have not had jab, says an NHS consultant
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Fundamentally though, for me, it comes down to this. I can’t think of a single case offhand of a person who was previously fit and healthy who has ended up needing intensive care after being fully vaccinated.

Here’s one:

Redirect Notice

www.google.co.uk
 
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