Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!
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Does look interesting
30 hours post booster, grand no side effects at all, was good with dose 1, was floored by dose 2, all good with the booster. Been taking ibuprofen every 12 hours, doing the trick.
Slightly different in Northern Ireland. Work from home where possible directive still in force although many back to office. Our office has put off pilot schemes to return until the new year.
Some encouraging real world data from Israel a few months (August) ahead of everyone in their booster programme, 2 doses give great protection, but it’s clear from the data the difference the booster makes.
My mum and dad both booked their boosters in for later this month (58 and 65 respectively but no significant underlying conditions)
Think they've made it available to all over 50s round here (West Yorks), not sure what it's like elsewhere.
They already tried, loads of people - on both right and left, including Labour - kicked off about it, and they bottled it.
My view on mandates is if you work in frontline healthcare then you should have to get it. It's common sense. You're working with sick/vulnerable people day in/day out.
I suppose you could extend that to social care workers and public services too.
Beyond that, and I'm pro vaccine, but beyond that I don't really support any mandates. I just don't think you can mandate things.
I think people have to have a choice somewhere down the line. If you choose to be a doctor or nurse or care worker, then it comes with the knowledge you have to be vaccinated.
I mean yeah but not sure anyone should align Biden and 'basic human decency'
The man's only positive selling point is that he's not Trump.
They'll take the side of the mandate first.
Then when people are losing their jobs they'll flip it and ask why the mandate was introduced.
Its an interesting one. I don’t disagree that a mandate will benefit the situation, the danger for me is the ethical principal, once we start to coerce consent in terms of personal agency to body integrity, where do you say art and stop. Thus for me the principal has to remain, it’s less about the context presently and more the ethical principal.
What If someone has cancer, declines treatment and wishes to go down a Palliative route, someone decides no we will do surgery and or provide active treatment, as they feel it’s in the best interests. These things get very murky and. or paternalistic very quickly. What if an older person wishes to go home from hospital, bht there team says no it’s for your own good and society’s you go to a care home. We all have an individual human right legally to take on a measure of informed risk and make a bad decision, the mandate approach takes this away, set a murky ethical precedent in my opinion mate. Consent has to be the corner stone of any society.
For me the difference is the impact on others.
In the case you detail above about a cancer patient I’d understand and support someone who decided to go the palliative route, I’d even go further and advocate that people should be able to plan for assisted suicide under controlled conditions - some end of life care can be pretty unpleasant unfortunately and I’d prefer people had the option to minimize it.
However if that same cancer patient decided to undergo treatment, even if there was relatively low odds of it succeeding, I’d feel they deserve a care team that were doing their best to ensure its success and reducing their chances of contracting a potentially deadly disease to immune suppressed people that would derail it. At the very least they too should have full knowledge of the risk and be able to consent as to who is treating them.
I agree Neiler but in this specific situation we're talking about an infectious virus.
People sign off on individual rights all the time depending on what job they're in.
If you sign up to be in the army, you know that if we go to war you're going to get shot at.
Ultimately, if you are a frontline healthcare worker, then you have made that choice to be a frontline worker and in this situation I think we have to be mandating that those people are vaccinated.
I'm entirely with you that there has to be a personal choice - but to me, that choice has been made by those people - they choose to go into that profession. And that choice comes with the knowledge that you have to be vaccinated as to limit the risk of getting infected with COVID and passing it on.
NilSatisOptimum
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Well I never who would have thought not... I know "kin Keyboard warriors" that's who, in the timed honored tradition give yourselves a pat on the back and just hope its not you and yours stuck in the back of an ambulance.
news.sky.com
www.bbc.co.uk
Waiting times from A&E to hospital bed or treatment at their longest ever, NHS England data shows
NHS England has released its figures for October, which show that more than 30% of people admitted to hospital from A&E had to wait over four hours for a bed or for treatment.
Lives at risk from long ambulance waits, say paramedics
Targets are missed across UK - with some heart attack and stroke victims waiting up to nine hours for help.
www.bbc.co.uk
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