Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Disagree with this tbh.

Think that cases numbers do matter as even if they don’t end up in hospital themselves, there exists the chance they can pass it onto someone else who either through health conditions/unvaccinated/bad luck isn’t as fortunate. If there is more virus circulating there is more chance that it finds those who are vulnerable.

They also matter for managing hospital capacity - more Covid positive patients, even if they are in hospital for something else, mean more separate wards to treat them and more complex juggling to avoid cross contamination of both patients and staff.

There is also the issue of long Covid, a case that might not need immediate hospital might still need long term health resources to deal with the after effects.

Long covid isn't long covid by itself, it's actually lasting effects of pneumonia in a serious case, directly caused by covid but it's an existing condition. Long covid therefore isn't new , although admittedly I don't know what proportionally the difference between mild and severe long covid.

In terms of passing it on, what point of concern do you have passing it on? Those who have had the jab in the UK are prioritised by risk and around 50 million of a 64 million population are protected, to not get seriously ill. The only point of concern is either people who refused to be vaccinated, or who can't. Those who can't have significant health issues that covid is the least of their concern, health concerns that would have made then vunerable to most viruses anyway.

Which is the point I stand by , either the vaccine works or it doesn't. If it does then worrying about passing it on when people have the vaccine is here nor there, as that is the literal point of the population getting it. If the vaccine doesn't work then people shouldn't be made to take it by force.

The point being , who are you concerned on passing it to if anyone who needs the vaccine has had it and has had access to get it?
 
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Just curious, does anyone know what happened with Merck and a COVID vaccine?
Always thought they were a global leader in developing vaccines

They stopped after phase 1 trials, but I don't remember the reason ie issues with efficacy vs safety.
The trials for medications for treatment looked better so that's where the $$ and effort went.

The big vaccine manufacturers all did poorly - Merck, GSK, Sanofi. Pfizer snarfed up BioNTech more than developed their own vaccine
 
Long covid isn't long covid by itself, it's actually lasting effects of pneumonia in a serious case, directly caused by covid but it's an existing condition. Long covid therefore isn't new , although admittedly I don't know what proportionally the difference between mild and severe long covid.

In terms of passing it on, what point of concern do you have passing it on? Those who have had the jab in the UK are prioritised by risk and around 50 million of a 64 million population are protected, to not get seriously ill. The only point of concern is either people who refused to be vaccinated, or who can't. Those who can't have significant health issues that covid is the least of their concern, health concerns that would have made then vunerable to most viruses anyway.

Which is the point I stand by , either the vaccine works or it doesn't. If it does then worrying about passing it on when people have the vaccine is here nor there, as that is the literal point of the population getting it. If the vaccine doesn't work then people shouldn't be made to take it by force.

The point being , who are you concerned on passing it to if anyone who needs the vaccine has had it and has had access to get it?
Those aren’t the only points of concern though, there are lots of immune compromised people who are vaccinated but who are still vulnerable eg people undergoing cancer treatment or those who have had organ replacements. And I might disagree with the stance of the unvaccinated but I still can worry about them getting ill both from an empathetic viewpoint and from the strain it places on general healthcare.

And yes the vaccine works but that doesn’t mean it works perfectly every time. They are fire retardants not magic capes that stop all sparks - if a wildfire is buring there are going to be more people singed. Their effectiveness also wanes over time, especially in the elderly.

You can simultaneously believe vaccines are brilliant and have done a fantastic job of reducing admissions and death but accept that rising cases still lead to rising levels of each.
 
Long covid isn't long covid by itself, it's actually lasting effects of pneumonia in a serious case, directly caused by covid but it's an existing condition. Long covid therefore isn't new , although admittedly I don't know what proportionally the difference between mild and severe long covid.
While it is true that patients that have had a viral or bacterial pneumonia can continue to have residual symptoms weeks (usually cough, shortness of breath, fatigue, potential deconditioning depending on length of hospital stay) after the infection itself is resolved, that it not (solely) what is being referred to with regard to long COVID. It is demonstrably different. Folks that are still weak, coughing, short of breath a couple weeks later at not what is meant by "long-COVID"


Per the CDC CDC- Long COVID

Although most people with COVID-19 get better within weeks of illness, some people experience post-COVID conditions. Post-COVID conditions are a wide range of new, returning, or ongoing health problems people can experience four or more weeks after first being infected with the virus that causes COVID-19. Even people who did not have COVID-19 symptoms in the days or weeks after they were infected can have post-COVID conditions. These conditions can present as different types and combinations of health problems for different lengths of time.
These post-COVID conditions may also be known as long COVID, long-haul COVID, post-acute COVID-19, long-term effects of COVID, or chronic COVID. CDC and experts around the world are working to learn more about short- and long-term health effects associated with COVID-19, who gets them, and why.

  • Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
  • Tiredness or fatigue
  • Symptoms that get worse after physical or mental activities (also known as post-exertional malaise)
  • Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
  • Cough
  • Chest or stomach pain
  • Headache
  • Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
  • Joint or muscle pain
  • Pins-and-needles feeling
  • Diarrhea
  • Sleep problems
  • Fever
  • Dizziness on standing (lightheadedness)
  • Rash
  • Mood changes
  • Change in smell or taste
  • Changes in menstrual period cycles
Some people who had severe illness with COVID-19 experience multiorgan effects or autoimmune conditions over a longer time with symptoms lasting weeks or months after COVID-19 illness. Multiorgan effects can affect many, if not all, body systems, including heart, lung, kidney, skin, and brain functions. Autoimmune conditions happen when your immune system attacks healthy cells in your body by mistake, causing inflammation (swelling) or tissue damage in the affected parts of the body.
 
Those aren’t the only points of concern though, there are lots of immune compromised people who are vaccinated but who are still vulnerable eg people undergoing cancer treatment or those who have had organ replacements. And I might disagree with the stance of the unvaccinated but I still can worry about them getting ill both from an empathetic viewpoint and from the strain it places on general healthcare.

And yes the vaccine works but that doesn’t mean it works perfectly every time. They are fire retardants not magic capes that stop all sparks - if a wildfire is buring there are going to be more people singed. Their effectiveness also wanes over time, especially in the elderly.

You can simultaneously believe vaccines are brilliant and have done a fantastic job of reducing admissions and death but accept that rising cases still lead to rising levels of each.


Let's hope the new tablets gets the blue and yellow lines lower.
 
Those aren’t the only points of concern though, there are lots of immune compromised people who are vaccinated but who are still vulnerable eg people undergoing cancer treatment or those who have had organ replacements. And I might disagree with the stance of the unvaccinated but I still can worry about them getting ill both from an empathetic viewpoint and from the strain it places on general healthcare.

And yes the vaccine works but that doesn’t mean it works perfectly every time. They are fire retardants not magic capes that stop all sparks - if a wildfire is buring there are going to be more people singed. Their effectiveness also wanes over time, especially in the elderly.

You can simultaneously believe vaccines are brilliant and have done a fantastic job of reducing admissions and death but accept that rising cases still lead to rising levels of each.


Add in the potential for a mutation in viral replication leading to something worse.
 
There are decent economic reason for US businesses to require vaccines (like many do for flu) such as fewer sick days taken by employees and lower health insurance costs
But last time I got a flu shot I was 11 or 12. Then I stopped doing it. And I still flew everywhere, most of European capitals and twice to the US, without showing no vaccine passport, including the flu. Why will it change once we beat covid?
 
Those aren’t the only points of concern though, there are lots of immune compromised people who are vaccinated but who are still vulnerable eg people undergoing cancer treatment or those who have had organ replacements. And I might disagree with the stance of the unvaccinated but I still can worry about them getting ill both from an empathetic viewpoint and from the strain it places on general healthcare.

And yes the vaccine works but that doesn’t mean it works perfectly every time. They are fire retardants not magic capes that stop all sparks - if a wildfire is buring there are going to be more people singed. Their effectiveness also wanes over time, especially in the elderly.

You can simultaneously believe vaccines are brilliant and have done a fantastic job of reducing admissions and death but accept that rising cases still lead to rising levels of each.


I appreciate your viewpoint absolutely. I can't disagree with any of it.

There has to be a limit between normality and pandemic though wouldn't you agree? Managing a country based on a small number of people in the long run is not teniable to do , especially when that majority have done as they are told. For the 50 million people , me included, we have done everything asked of us for so long.

You can spin that the other way from a humanitarian perspective absolutely. At some point though you have to accept that there will be some remaining risk for a small minority of people no matter what. I'm not talking social distancing or masks or anything like that, but potential restrictions , business shutting again, not interacting with others.

If the end result of the data is wear a mask again then that is hardly an inconvenience. It's when you directly restrict people's lives to protect a minority that would be affected just as much by the Novo virus , the flu , have much worse time with a cold, an infection etc. All that exist anyway, which is where I say covid isn't top of the list for them. At some point you have to not care if someone gets sick after refusing to get the virus!

At some point saying covid over and over has to stop because otherwise you lose all sense of normality without ever assuming a new normality. If the medication is approved as well and available over the counter then with vaccines and medicine , covid is no more a threat anymore than any other illness in western societies




While it is true that patients that have had a viral or bacterial pneumonia can continue to have residual symptoms weeks (usually cough, shortness of breath, fatigue, potential deconditioning depending on length of hospital stay) after the infection itself is resolved, that it not (solely) what is being referred to with regard to long COVID. It is demonstrably different. Folks that are still weak, coughing, short of breath a couple weeks later at not what is meant by "long-COVID"


Per the CDC CDC- Long COVID

Although most people with COVID-19 get better within weeks of illness, some people experience post-COVID conditions. Post-COVID conditions are a wide range of new, returning, or ongoing health problems people can experience four or more weeks after first being infected with the virus that causes COVID-19. Even people who did not have COVID-19 symptoms in the days or weeks after they were infected can have post-COVID conditions. These conditions can present as different types and combinations of health problems for different lengths of time.
These post-COVID conditions may also be known as long COVID, long-haul COVID, post-acute COVID-19, long-term effects of COVID, or chronic COVID. CDC and experts around the world are working to learn more about short- and long-term health effects associated with COVID-19, who gets them, and why.

  • Difficulty breathing or shortness of breath
  • Tiredness or fatigue
  • Symptoms that get worse after physical or mental activities (also known as post-exertional malaise)
  • Difficulty thinking or concentrating (sometimes referred to as “brain fog”)
  • Cough
  • Chest or stomach pain
  • Headache
  • Fast-beating or pounding heart (also known as heart palpitations)
  • Joint or muscle pain
  • Pins-and-needles feeling
  • Diarrhea
  • Sleep problems
  • Fever
  • Dizziness on standing (lightheadedness)
  • Rash
  • Mood changes
  • Change in smell or taste
  • Changes in menstrual period cycles
Some people who had severe illness with COVID-19 experience multiorgan effects or autoimmune conditions over a longer time with symptoms lasting weeks or months after COVID-19 illness. Multiorgan effects can affect many, if not all, body systems, including heart, lung, kidney, skin, and brain functions. Autoimmune conditions happen when your immune system attacks healthy cells in your body by mistake, causing inflammation (swelling) or tissue damage in the affected parts of the body.
If you look up long term side effects of pneumonia , they match a lot of the more serious ones.

I don't doubt that the lasting side effects are down to pneumonia forming in covid infections which is shown to be the case.

Running with the this could happen note as well is just living in fear. All those protestors who kicked off because of that bill to have heavier handed approaches with them , all because of what it could mean. And all it has meant so far is dragging people off motorways in the name of protest.

Point is, covid could mutate, it could, so could any other virus at any point, and they do. Hence the reason why the common cold can't be 'cured' or eradicated.
 
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But last time I got a flu shot I was 11 or 12. Then I stopped doing it. And I still flew everywhere, most of European capitals and twice to the US, without showing no vaccine passport, including the flu. Why will it change once we beat covid?
The places you cite have similar vaccines policies and that would be a consideration for when travel doesn't require a visa.
That said, just because it has been done a certain way, that doesn't make it the right way.

We won't beat COVID. Likely just move from a pandemic to endemic

And, I'll say, yet again, COVID is not flu.
 
The places you cite have similar vaccines policies and that would be a consideration for when travel doesn't require a visa.
That said, just because it has been done a certain way, that doesn't make it the right way.

We won't beat COVID. Likely just move from a pandemic to endemic

And, I'll say, yet again, COVID is not flu.
I know, but you were also talking about flu passports too so I went it.
 
Wow Merck were at 50%, Pfizer claiming 90% (Hospitalisation & Death).

I wonder if this is because of how the drugs were developed. I might be wrong on this but it seems as though the Merck antiviral is a reworked influenza one. Whereas the Pfizer one is specifically developed to combat sars-cov and is coupled with another drug to help it work.
 
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