Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[LinekersLegs]

They will still make lots of money from the richer nations but glad Merck have made this move

 

[LinekersLegs]

This is more a jumping off point in discussion rather than an absolute point either way.

Given that the vaccine is money to these companies, as seen by the publically funded one not giving their recipe out to help poorer countries, because it would lose them money.

And given the 18 months of evidence saying how young people are not affected by covid in the same way as adults, with any serious cases being barely anything in the data.

Is it possible that the push for vaccinating younger and younger is fueled more by money, more vaccines given out = more money made by said vaccine suppliers. The point the other way will be how it reduces spread which is also true, so there is the counter argument to it. In a world where money is king, where the UK has shown alone during the pandemic that money has trumped battling covid effectively with the billions of pounds spent needlesly to friends of the government.

Could it be at all possible they only want to vaccinate kids (given we are not far off covid medicine being available as well) simply to sell more vaccines to countries?

I’m sure there is a profit motive for the vaccine companies to get kids vaccinated, although as @tsubaki points out the most money is usually made in other areas.

However that doesn’t mean there isn’t a public health case to be made too.

Kids thankfully aren’t affected by Covid in the same way as adults but I don’t agree with the statement that serious cases barely reflects in the data, certainly not the case here in the US especially when case rates are high.

COVID-19 mortality preventable by vaccines - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

In this analysis, we estimate the number of adult deaths that could have been prevented by timely vaccination. We find that approximately 234,000 deaths since June 2021 could have been prevented with primary series vaccination. These vaccine-preventable deaths represent 60% of all adult COVID-19...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

Even among children age 1-14, COVID-19 was in the top 10 leading causes of death through August and September 2021. Among children age 5-14, COVID-19 ranked as the number 6 leading cause of death in August and September. Among children ages 1-4, COVID-19’s rank rose from number 13 to number 7 among leading causes of death in August 2021 and held there in September.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Looking much like the Care home policy from Government was to purposely dupe homes into accepting people into their care...

Homepage - Good Law Project

goodlawproject.org

 

[LinekersLegs]

UKHSA, and their previous iteration PHE, have been superb at presenting detailed data sets

 

[LinekersLegs]

Interesting thread

 

[LinekersLegs]

@Neiler At last!

 

[wm02]

@Neiler At last!

Very interesting. Their HQ is about 20 minutes from me, have a friend who participated in one of the trials

 

[Bruce Wayne]

@Tubey

Wearing face coverings protected wearers from COVID-19 infection – large scale study | University of Oxford

People who wore face coverings or masks outside of the home, and were more exposed to infection due to their circumstances, had ‘significantly’ lower rates of COVID-19 infection, according to research published in BMJ Open today, led by Oxford’s Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science.

www.ox.ac.uk

 

[Tubey]

@Tubey

Wearing face coverings protected wearers from COVID-19 infection – large scale study | University of Oxford

People who wore face coverings or masks outside of the home, and were more exposed to infection due to their circumstances, had ‘significantly’ lower rates of COVID-19 infection, according to research published in BMJ Open today, led by Oxford’s Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science.

www.ox.ac.uk

Yeah and I agree with that assertion that those willing to wear face coverings will be infected less. What doesn't necessarily follow is that the face covering itself is the thing preventing the infection; rather it's the behaviour of those willing to do so in the first place.

As that study says, it's a 'predictor' of it. 'The study found there was a higher rate of infections among those who lacked autonomy to follow COVID behavioural measures and did not comply with wearing a face covering.'

I honestly don't think a mask mandate would change that. They'd still behavioural act pretty much the same way.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah and I agree with that assertion that those willing to wear face coverings will be infected less. What doesn't necessarily follow is that the face covering itself is the thing preventing the infection; rather it's the behaviour of those willing to do so in the first place.

As that study says, it's a 'predictor' of it. 'The study found there was a higher rate of infections among those who lacked autonomy to follow COVID behavioural measures and did not comply with wearing a face covering.'

I honestly don't think a mask mandate would change that. They'd still behavioural act pretty much the same way.

It conflates with your prior assertion that wearing a face mask would encourage more reckless behaviour. Instead, wearing a face mask was associated with more responsible behaviour. It also shows that a face covering can be crucial if you're unable to follow other social measures (such as social distancing), which given the high prevalence of spread in schools, for instance, may also be good to consider.

 

[BlueToff]

True, but the French are taking it the correct level of serious - when I was there, getting on the TGV (at Paris and Lyon) needed a pass and a ticket and they were checking. The Intercities and TER didn’t.

But then as your initial point was about they're also scrapping free tests.

 

[BlueToff]

Yeah and I agree with that assertion that those willing to wear face coverings will be infected less. What doesn't necessarily follow is that the face covering itself is the thing preventing the infection; rather it's the behaviour of those willing to do so in the first place.

As that study says, it's a 'predictor' of it. 'The study found there was a higher rate of infections among those who lacked autonomy to follow COVID behavioural measures and did not comply with wearing a face covering.'

I honestly don't think a mask mandate would change that. They'd still behavioural act pretty much the same way.

I think all the MPs suddenly wearing masks in the chamber again suggests there'll be a mandate back pretty soon.

I don't know how they'll draw the line, like. People aren't going to be going to gigs in masks and I doubt you'll get 70,000 people at a match to wear masks.

Guess it'll be for transport, shops etc?

 

[Harryflashman]

I think all the MPs suddenly wearing masks in the chamber again suggests there'll be a mandate back pretty soon.

I don't know how they'll draw the line, like. People aren't going to be going to gigs in masks and I doubt you'll get 70,000 people at a match to wear masks.

Guess it'll be for transport, shops etc?

Could be possible .The fact that the leader of the opposition has tested positive whilst I heard James O’Brien on LBC yesterday saying he expected an outbreak in the HofC in a manner that indicated he’d heard something. Today sort of further confirmed that , I’d suspect there could be a few more coming .

personally given that transport and certainly supermarkets are two things people have no real choice to attend I struggle to see how anyone could argue against a mandate. I’m not arguing against masks , by any means but theatres , restaurants, pubs and the rests have an element of choice so you’ll always have a degree of resistance from some .

 

[RAFUH]

Exactly. A healthy patient is not a paying patient. From the standpoint of the US healthcare system, as long as there is an available ICU bed and nurses to attend it, every single person not in the hospital dying from COVID is a missed opportunity. I know that’s a cynical way to put it, and certainly doesn’t reflect the feelings of beleaguered doctors and nurses who continue caring for the unvaxxed loons, but just goes to show how completely inverted the motivations become when the ultimate end goal of your nation’s healthcare system is profit.

Yes and no.

COVID patients don't make a lot of money for the amount of resources (equip/staffing/med) they require. They can take up a bed for a long time.

The reimbursement for a new admission is much greater than the daily rate after admission. Hospitals - not unlike restaurants - make money by how quickly a room is "turned"

This is especially problematic from a hospital perspective if they are having to stop all but emergent surgeries. Surgeries are $$$

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I think all the MPs suddenly wearing masks in the chamber again suggests there'll be a mandate back pretty soon.

I don't know how they'll draw the line, like. People aren't going to be going to gigs in masks and I doubt you'll get 70,000 people at a match to wear masks.

Guess it'll be for transport, shops etc?

When I've been to the theatre or to concerts since things have reopened there has been a requirement to wear masks throughout. Indeed, I've got tickets to Wagner in a bit and the ENO are recommending a face covering for the whole 5 hour performance

If you have COVID symptoms you must not attend the venue, this includes if you :

• have tested positive for COVID-19 in the last 14 days
• believe you may be infected with COVID-19, whether you have symptoms or not
• have experienced symptoms in the last 14 days
• have been in close contact with anyone who has experienced symptoms in the last 14 days
• have arrived in England in the last 14 days from a country where UK quarantine restrictions apply
• have been instructed to self-isolate by test and trace

We encourage all customers where possible to wear a face covering (unless medically exempt) and respect other peoples personal space while moving around the theatre and especially in congested areas. All of our staff will continue to wear face coverings at all times as part of our venue risk assessment process.