Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Ghost Rider]

The vulnerable do get picked off even if they are vaccinated, if the virus is circulating to a large enough extent - that’s why we are having so many vaccinated elderly and vulnerable people dying even now.

Also I am not sure how you can apparently criticise vaccination as being inspired by corruption whilst also saying it’s your preferred option.

Because everything has corruption if you look hard enough. A company with a turn over of 20k got a multi million pound contract for supplying PPE, which then failed. Matt Hancock had an affair with someone who was then elevated to a senior position AND her brother got NHS contracts for his private sector healthcare.

The truth is the world is corrupted , especially the western world. We never never encounter any of it but it exists in the shadows. So in terms of the vaccine, even if there is ulterior motives behind the scenes, it still offers me protection against covid! So even if the company making it want to make as much as they can from it, a lord of war scenario, to me and you it really doesn't matter.

ok so in terms of containment, how do you contain a virus that could be ever present without removing parts of society? To what extent do you stop doing x/y/z because of covid, without having serious knock on effects to other areas? When do you have normality again, more importantly, if you remove the normality and change it to a new version, how do you decide that?

In terms of elderly and vunerable dying, that would suggest that the vaccine isnt working, which means the importance of having it decreases surely? Or it does work and vaccinated elderly and vunerable are dying for reasons that elderly and vunerable people die anyway. I have always felt this element has always been dismissed when covid wasn't at its peak, because at its peak nothing else matterered. But the idea that elderly people die for example regularly isn't a new concept, so i personally choose to believe that the vaccine i keep getting....works and therefore justifyable. If you take any vaccinated death as a reason to restrict society then eventually you have to say the vaccine is not the answer, so then what is?

 

[tsubaki]

The chance of dying when you are fully vaccinated is extremely small. The main issue is anti vaxxers allowing the spread to continue. If we vaccinated everyone above the age of say 10 or 11 deaths would be extremely low.

The chance goes up if someone is elderly or vulnerable, and the more virus is about the greater the chance that someone vulnerable is going to come into contact with it. That was my point about why they’ve got to vaccinate everyone.

 

[spectateur]

I think Germany stopped offering this recently. Don't know about the rest of Europe.

France also is stopping free testing at the end of the month.
The objective is to encourage more people being vaccinated as the pass santé requirement to enter many public places is now in force until next year along with obligatory mask wearing etc.
There are protests and objection of course but as anyone who has been here recently will tell you, on public transport, supermarkets etc there's 100% compliance.
Infection rates are less than 10% of thosr6in England.

 

[tsubaki]

France also is stopping free testing at the end of the month.
The objective is to encourage more people being vaccinated as the pass santé requirement to enter many public places is now in force until next year along with obligatory mask wearing etc.
There are protests and objection of course but as anyone who has been here recently will tell you, on public transport, supermarkets etc there's 100% compliance.
Infection rates are less than 10% of thosr6in England.

TBF that (cancelling free tests as a tool to increase compliance) isn’t something I think is smart - didn’t test passes only last for three days anyway?

 

[spectateur]

TBF that (cancelling free tests as a tool to increase compliance) isn’t something I think is smart - didn’t test passes only last for three days anyway?

Yes, but lot of people including anti vaxers and others against the pass santé were getting free tests to avoid taking a free jab.
If they want to continue this practice then now they pay for it. .

 

[BlueToff]

The chance of dying when you are fully vaccinated is extremely small. The main issue is anti vaxxers allowing the spread to continue. If we vaccinated everyone above the age of say 10 or 11 deaths would be extremely low.

Well, it's not just this. The vaccines do wane, and the older/more vulnerable somebody is, then it's going to wane sooner than it would in a person who isn't older/more vulnerable.

So that's why boosters are a thing.

 

[BlueToff]

TBF that (cancelling free tests as a tool to increase compliance) isn’t something I think is smart - didn’t test passes only last for three days anyway?

Yeah I think it's wrong. I do see the logic to try and encourage people to get jabbed but if there's less testing it's going to skew numbers.

It took ages, far too long, but the testing regime in the UK is thorough. Does rely on personal responsibility and there's still issues (reliability etc) but the access to tests is probably as good as any medical access has ever been in terms of just easiness to get the tests.

 

[tsubaki]

Yes, but lot of people including anti vaxers and others against the pass santé were getting free tests to avoid taking a free jab.
If they want to continue this practice then now they pay for it. .

… but if they were going to testing centres every three days then that’s already pretty inconvenient for them but it does help protect others, if they are being charged then they’ll probably do something daft like not get vaccinated or tested but still try and find weak spots (getting on trains at intermediate stops for example).

 

[BlueToff]

… but if they were going to testing centres every three days then that’s already pretty inconvenient for them but it does help protect others, if they are being charged then they’ll probably do something daft like not get vaccinated or tested but still try and find weak spots (getting on trains at intermediate stops for example).

I mean I do agree with the general point you're making but it's mad how 1984 the world's become isn't it...

'Try and find weak spots' for just getting on a train without a medical pass. Mad.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

The chance of dying when you are fully vaccinated is extremely small. The main issue is anti vaxxers allowing the spread to continue. If we vaccinated everyone above the age of say 10 or 11 deaths would be extremely low.

Just aint true, a healthy 80 year old fully vaccinated has the same chance of death as 50 year old who is not vaccinated its lower its not extremely small. This just feeds into the mistrust of the anti vaxxers peddle, bad as Facebook some of the nonsense peddled here.

 

[Billy Dean]

… but if they were going to testing centres every three days then that’s already pretty inconvenient for them but it does help protect others, if they are being charged then they’ll probably do something daft like not get vaccinated or tested but still try and find weak spots (getting on trains at intermediate stops for example).

This is what I think will happen in Germany. I think you will also get some places that let unvaxxed people enter on the downlow. I have already met some people who are unvaxxed and have found a late night party bar that lets them in.

 

[TN Toffee]

No, not really.

For a start, if you want to make money out of medicine then preventative measures like vaccination is not the way to go - you can see this with a comparison of the cost of things like Regeneron (between $1500 and $6500 per dose, and that’s on top of other hospital costs) and vaccines (Pfizer was twenty euro per dose).

The push to vaccinate everyone is a consequence of governments, for whatever reason, largely abandoning containment as a response to this. For reasons I’ve elaborated on at length I think this was the wrong decision (briefly having working and effective containment systems will protect us agains new variants / new diseases whereas being vaccinated against COVID may not / will not).

However once they’ve made that decision then they’ve got to vaccinate everyone, kids included, because otherwise the virus keeps bumbling along indefinitely in the substantial % of the population that isn’t vaccinated, and the vulnerable keep being picked off.

Exactly. A healthy patient is not a paying patient. From the standpoint of the US healthcare system, as long as there is an available ICU bed and nurses to attend it, every single person not in the hospital dying from COVID is a missed opportunity. I know that’s a cynical way to put it, and certainly doesn’t reflect the feelings of beleaguered doctors and nurses who continue caring for the unvaxxed loons, but just goes to show how completely inverted the motivations become when the ultimate end goal of your nation’s healthcare system is profit.

 

[tsubaki]

I mean I do agree with the general point you're making but it's mad how 1984 the world's become isn't it...

'Try and find weak spots' for just getting on a train without a medical pass. Mad.

True, but the French are taking it the correct level of serious - when I was there, getting on the TGV (at Paris and Lyon) needed a pass and a ticket and they were checking. The Intercities and TER didn’t.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Just aint true, a healthy 80 year old fully vaccinated has the same chance of death as 50 year old who is not vaccinated its lower its not extremely small. This just feeds into the mistrust of the anti vaxxers peddle, bad as Facebook some of the nonsense peddled here.

A non vaccinated 50 year old has a low chance of dying from a statistic point of view. Out of every 1000 non vaccinated 50 year olds who catch it 5 or 6 will die based on available statistics online.

Its a tough one as obviously older people are at risk. If you vaccinate everyone the spread is minimised which will result in less death. It doesn't look like masks are returning so I believe vaccines are the best available solution.

 

[spectateur]

… but if they were going to testing centres every three days then that’s already pretty inconvenient for them but it does help protect others, if they are being charged then they’ll probably do something daft like not get vaccinated or tested but still try and find weak spots (getting on trains at intermediate stops for example).

But they weren't getting tested every 3 days, only when they were planning to go to venues where entry was dependent on the production of a pass santé or a negative test certificate.
These people are anti vaxers or anti pass santé or both.
I think that most people only get tested when they suspect they maybe infected.