Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Apparently they use a self reporting methodology, not sure the exact extract of that, whether it’s individuals or health care workers getting in touch or whatever. The comparrisom came my way of another health care professional, who said they’d go to imperial for what they believe is more accurate data. Thought that was a bit of a leap of faith given the variance, perhaps the tweet is purposely designed to be controversial in the variance.

I don’t think the imperial data intention was to be comparibke or controversial to the U.K. gov data the tweet is spliced. But thought it was interesting, in terms of different methodologies (As I understand them).

Just had a bit of a delve there, the imperial method is an app, where you can self report, apparently the Goverment and Imperial figures have similar up to the last couple of days and the imperial figures have jumped. Curious. Could be for a number of reasons, an organised hack maybe - who knows.
 
So you just repeat anything you read whether you believe it accurate or not?

The Telegraph reporting is at clear odds with the published PHE data and doctor reports - at this time and with the absence of any more info who do you think is more accurate then?

Well let’s be honest here, you keep posting various bits off Twitter without verifying the background nor medical qualifications of the individuals who have provided the data for yourself. I merely made a single throwaway reference to an article, I didn’t even claim it to be true. I just made a reference to a piece that I had read which was then turned into a political assault and then a condemnation of medical content.

If we are not allowed to refer to articles that do not follow the perceived political viewpoint of the many on here or have not been made on Twitter (which I do not read) then perhaps we should only allow left wing or anti government political and medical voices to be heard as being definitive judgement of what is actually going on.

In terms of published accuracy, I have little faith in SAGE nor it’s mouthpieces such as Ferguson as they have consistently got the numbers and forecast wrong, until they can see which way the wind is blowing. The comment I raised stacks up with previous data suggesting that the U.K. has consistently overstated Covid statistics and rolled all forms of death ( by flu, old age or whatever) as being driven by Covid when this was simply not true. But of course I read it in the telegraph which obviously means it’s a tory inspired spin job. Had I read it in the Mirror or the Socialist Worker, it would have had gravitas and carried more weight……
 
How were your other symptoms? I got it about 4 weeks ago (was vaccinated) and my case was relatively mild, but decreased sense of smell is a lingering issue.

So, last Monday when I tested positive, I was fine. I'd done a 100k ride on the Sunday, 40k ride and gym on the Monday morning, felt better than ever. Monday night I started getting a sore throat, and by then I knew I'd tested positive so I was stressing a bit too as we had my sister and her newborn round and it was all not helping.

Tuesday - it was like tonsilitis really. I woke up and was freezing, wrapped in my covers in 25 degree heat at 8am. Really bad body aches, but both the fever and aches went within a few hours, and painkillers stemmed the pain well. Wednesday was more of the same, a bit like a bad head cold and sore throat.

Thursday was rougher, started feeling like I was really ill, constantly sore throat and painkillers didn't work. Friday I felt better but got chest pains and I panicked a bit as I never have them, but they ebbed off and no breathing issues, but that's when the fatigue kicked in, and I mean fatigue like I've never had before. Slept 10 hours straight overnight, woke up for work at 9 and within an hour had to go back to bed as I couldn't even sit up. Slept that off and by Saturday eve, felt a lot better, and then my taste and smell disappeared. By Sunday I was fine, and even managed a spin on the turbo, albeit struggled with anything more than very light effort, but i wanted to do something to get the blood flowing.

TL;DR - basically, 5 days of being ill in total. I had all of the symptoms bar an awful cough/sickness, but they kind of all came on different days. I thought I'd got over it twice in total only to get hit again by it, and then the taste and smell went at the end and was gone for about 72 hours. I've had one jab, exactly 22 days before testing positive, so it was in my system and I'm glad it was.
 
Good question; not sure anyone really knows. I read/heard previously that this was thought to be a neurological issue, but this review suggests it's effecting some nasal/sinus cells related to smell function.


Thing with mine is it just went in a flash, and came back in a flash (kind of).

I had some dark chocolate earlier and could taste it, and then could kind of taste the coffee I had.

Couldn't taste the sandwich I had a few hours later, but then, wham, the melon at 5ish and I was back, haha, and then if anything the smells were quite overpowering.

Weirdly, courgette - that tasted weird – and some mayo smelt like paint :D
 
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“Professor Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, told The Telegraph: 'This data is incredibly important, and it should be published on an ongoing basis.

'When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it.'

He said the Government should publish clearer figures to outline whether the virus was the primary cause of admission, as the numbers could be exaggerating NHS pressure.”
 
Oh I know, it was more that none of his friends are getting it too. And I feel that his hesitancy is basically complacency - he was acting like it's nothing to fear so why get the vaccine. I was trying to stress, it's not really just about him. And that's where I think given how well NZ handled it, and Aus, there's possibly a discrepancy. The fear factor isn't there as such, for some people. And I'm not sure how a government stresses that more. I suppose they're doing all they can. My main critique is their decisions to wait on the roll out. I get why they did it, but it wasn't just supply. I remember reading in March time that Aus - I think NZ as well - said they were going to wait and see how it played out in Europe. I think that gave time which ultimately fed into vaccine sceptics and then, possibly, people who were on the fence. When they could have just been as organised as they were for the initial lockdowns and got the roll out up and running and done sharpish.

He's the type of person who usually likes to be at the front of the queue for anything, including getting ill tbh. I think if he was over here, he'd have had it in a heartbeat. But he's basically had life as normal bar a few months in 2020 - he lives in Cambridge I believe.

I suggested the travel restrictions too so I hope you're right and he's wrong (I think he is wrong about that, btw). I tried to stress it to him, but he wasn't having it.

I don't think he's anti-vax really. He did say he was going to wait and see to see how it played out with other variants etc, but at that point I gave up and talked about something else cause I don't want to be bossing him around, it's his choice, just tried to stress it's to protect everyone.

He also put so many drugs into his system in the last 5 years before he moved to NZ that I was kind of like 'bit rich, mate'.

Yeah my fear for people here is complacency - not necessarily that there are a lot of rabid anti-vaxxers here but simply, COVID hasn't been an issue for a large segment of the population in New Zealand (lucky them!) - i.e. their jobs have been unaffected, their day-to-day lives unaffected aside from our lockdown in March-April last year, and perhaps they don't travel overseas so the border closures don't bother them. So their train of thought might be, why do I need to get the vaccine.

In that regard obviously we've been very lucky over the last fifteen months and I'm grateful for that. In a way the current COVID outbreak in New South Wales is good because it might put the fear of god into some people to get the vaccine, seeing as the virus is back on our doorstep.

Given my line of work complacency isn't an issue for me as obviously tourism has been decimated, many of my work colleagues have been made redundant, and those that are left in the industry recognize getting vaccinated as our only way out of this mess so we can hurry up and open the borders again. Oh, and I really miss overseas travel!
 
Well let’s be honest here, you keep posting various bits off Twitter without verifying the background nor medical qualifications of the individuals who have provided the data for yourself. I merely made a single throwaway reference to an article, I didn’t even claim it to be true. I just made a reference to a piece that I had read which was then turned into a political assault and then a condemnation of medical content.

If we are not allowed to refer to articles that do not follow the perceived political viewpoint of the many on here or have not been made on Twitter (which I do not read) then perhaps we should only allow left wing or anti government political and medical voices to be heard as being definitive judgement of what is actually going on.

In terms of published accuracy, I have little faith in SAGE nor it’s mouthpieces such as Ferguson as they have consistently got the numbers and forecast wrong, until they can see which way the wind is blowing. The comment I raised stacks up with previous data suggesting that the U.K. has consistently overstated Covid statistics and rolled all forms of death ( by flu, old age or whatever) as being driven by Covid when this was simply not true. But of course I read it in the telegraph which obviously means it’s a tory inspired spin job. Had I read it in the Mirror or the Socialist Worker, it would have had gravitas and carried more weight……
I do post stuff from Twitter but if it is an individual yes I do usually check the background of the person involved, especially if they are giving medical advice/data, and I only reprint things that to the best of my knowledge I believe are accurate - if I knowingly reprint something that I later find out is inaccurate I go back and correct it. And I’ll almost always link to the actual article precisely because I want other people to say “think that is incorrect, look at this other data that contradicts it“ or “the logic is wrong because of x”.

Of course you can refer to articles “that do not follow the perceived political viewpoint of the many on here” although tbh I don’t think the % of people with Covid admitted to hospital is really a political viewpoint as much as something that you have accurate data or not on. It was your apparent rather blind acceptance of the info and then reversal that you didn’t know if it was accurate that I was pushing back on.

The data that contradicts that Telegraph report isn’t from Sage or Ferguson and doesn’t come from the likes of the Socialist worker - it is on page 18 of the most recent PHE report https://assets.publishing.service.g...t_data/file/1005517/Technical_Briefing_19.pdf

Until the Telegraph gives a bit more info than just a subset of one day’s data (as your later post links to) which even then doesn’t meet the desired target (I don’t see anything that states the supposed 43% testing positive within 2 days of admission are not in for Covid symptoms) I’m going to believe the PHE data is more accurate.

As for Professor Heneghan’s comments - as a data nerd I’d love more clarity and granularity on the data but I also appreciate that those at the sharp end of collecting this data are pretty overwhelmed at the moment
 
Behind the paywall for me too. Without more info inclined to believe the PHE published data snd the, admittedly anecdotal, reports from frontline NHS doctors that seeing lots of Covid sufferers.

Also even if everyone is being treated for something else than Covid but are infected that still poses huge healthcare challenges and requires reopening up of specific Covid wards
What they are saying is only 44% hsve had a test before being hospitalised which isn’t the same thing. Think about those who are likely to be hospitalised now. The unvaccinated. Who at this point are going to be those that don’t take it seriously and so are unlikely to get a test before things get bad and they have to go to hospital. Here is the the article. It’s written like a tabloid article tbh. Also the article contradicts itself slightly when it goes into the stats.


‘More than half of Covid hospitalisations are patients who only tested positive after admission, leaked data reveal.

The figures suggest vast numbers are being classed as hospitalised by Covid when they were admitted with other ailments, with the virus picked up by routine testing.

Experts said it meant the national statistics, published daily on the government website and frequently referred to by ministers, may far overstate the levels of pressures on the NHS.

The leaked data – covering all NHS trusts in England – show that, as of last Thursday, just 44 per cent of patients classed as being hospitalised with Covid had tested positive by the time they were admitted.

The majority of cases were not detected until patients underwent standard Covid tests, carried out on everyone admitted to hospital for any reason.

Overall, 56 per cent of Covid hospitalisations fell into this category, the data, seen by The Telegraph, show.

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Crucially, this group does not distinguish between those admitted because of severe illness, later found to be caused by the virus, and those in hospital for different reasons who might otherwise never have known that they had picked it up.

Last month, health officials instructed NHS trusts to provide "a breakdown of the current stock of Covid patients", splitting it into those who were in hospital primarily because of the virus and those there for other reasons. So far, NHS England has failed to publish this data.

However, the patterns shown in the leaked figures – with the vast majority of hospital Covid cases being diagnosed after admission, in some cases weeks later – suggest it includes large numbers likely to have been admitted for other reasons.
The breakdown of daily Covid hospital diagnoses shows that of more than 780 hospitalisations dated last Thursday, 44 per cent involved people who tested positive in the 14 days before hospital entry.

A further 43 per cent were made within two days of admission, with 13 per cent made in the days and weeks that followed, including those likely to have caught the virus in hospital.

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Experts said the high number of cases being detected belatedly – at a time when PCR tests were widely available – suggested many such patients had been admitted for other reasons.

Prof Carl Heneghan, director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at the University of Oxford, said: "This data is incredibly important, and it should be published on an ongoing basis.

"When people hear about hospitalisations with Covid, they will assume that Covid is the likely cause, but this data shows something quite different – this is about Covid being detected after tests were looking for it."

Prof Heneghan urged the Government to publish clearer data, including whether or not the virus was the primary cause of hospital admission.

"This needs to be fixed as a matter of urgency," he said, adding that the published data could lead the public "towards false conclusions", exaggerating the true levels of pressures on hospitals.

Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of the 1922 committee of Tory MPs, said: "Nearly 18 months into the Covid crisis, it is absurd that data breaking down hospital admissions still isn't publicly available on a regular basis.

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"Counting all patients who test positive as Covid hospitalisations is inevitably misleading and gives a false picture of the continuing health impact of the virus."

Greg Clark, the chairman of Commons science and technology select committee, on Monday night said he would write to Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, asking him to publish the breakdown on a regular basis following The Telegraph's disclosure.

"If hospitalisations from Covid are a key determinant of how concerned we should be, and how quickly restrictions should be lifted, it's important that the data is not presented in a way that could lead to the wrong conclusions being drawn," he said.

"While some of these people may be being admitted due to Covid, we currently do not know how many. And for those who are not, there is a big distinction between people who are admitted because of Covid and those are in for something else but have Covid in such a mild form that it was not the cause of their hospitalisation."

The leaked statistics come from NHS daily situation reports, collected by all hospital trusts in England.

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One NHS data expert said the published statistics distorted the true picture, saying: "It creates an impression that all these people are going into hospital with Covid, and that simply is not the case. People are worried and scared and not really understanding the true picture – that is what I find despicable."

An NHS spokesman said: "Many patients are admitted to hospital because of their Covid symptoms and complications, which are then confirmed with a post-admission Covid test, and for others they may initially be presymptomatic or asymptomatic."

On Tuesday, NHS leaders said the health service is as stretched now as at the height of the pandemic in January and made a plea for extra funding.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Chancellor and Health Secretary, NHS Providers, which represents hospital trusts, raised fears the situation could get worse before it gets better.

They said "very different pressures" - including a "massive backlog" of patients in need of care, high numbers of staff self-isolating or on annual leave, meant the strain on the service now is just as bad as at the start of the year. ‘
 
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