Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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The government has literally opened up the country, meaning most of those in the nightclub going age range are at risk of exposure to Covid and have been for over a year well before they will have had a chance to be vaccinated. So for starters we can scrap the idea that vaccine passports are for their safety as it just doesn’t hold up to scrutiny. If it was about safety then clubs wouldn’t be open and neither would the rest of the country if the government actually gave a toss about our safety.

There is no reason why an individual shouldn’t be able to produce a negative Covid test prior to entry- that’s the point labour are making. As vaccine passports don’t address the fact that double jabbed people can still carry the virus. In a tightly packed environment if there are double jabbed people carrying the virus then it will spread and then it can potentially spread to people who are vulnerable.

And the bit I bolded in what you wrote, well that’s just weird to me. I understand that people are worried that if people don’t get vaccinated then we’ll have more lockdowns.
But you saying “we can’t make people get it so we have to do things to make them get it”.. don’t you see the issue there with what you’re saying?

Hang on, I'm in that age group and have had my first jab. Every adult had the chance to get their first dose before July 19th.

The vaccine passports wouldn't be getting introduced until after everyone had had chance to get their second dose plus a two-week extra period for those second doses to have fully kicked in.

But the issue with the negative tests is that they aren't PCR? they're lateral flow - you can literally lie. You just go onto the NHS site and say you've tested negative and scan the lateral flow - it's all about trust. You'd hope most people wouldn't do it, but some obviously would do.

The point is if everyone in there is double jabbed, nobody is likely to end up with severe illness - again, that's the point of the vaccines, not to stop infection entirely because that's pretty much impossible.

Well what's the alternative? I'm fully against making them mandatory, I'm actually against vaccine passports. I just can't see the alternative though. 'Don't be a w*****, get the jab' clearly isn't working, is it?

If someone who is refusing the vaccine can't then go and do stuff they like, then that's on them.
 
Obviously taking the jab is the ideal option. But businesses wanting to see your private medical information? That’s just weird to me.

There is no way on this green earth that you'll get into another country in 2022 (or at the very least without quarantining) without being able to show you have the vaccine

I fully agree with your point, but what's the alternative?

People not getting the vaccine is a bigger problem than someone deciding they no longer want to wear a mask now it's not mandatory, for example.
 
But the issue with the negative tests is that they aren't PCR? they're lateral flow - you can literally lie. You just go onto the NHS site and say you've tested negative and scan the lateral flow - it's all about trust. You'd hope most people wouldn't do it, but some obviously would do.

The NHS is going to catch some of those people (the superspreaders) via contact tracing.

Sooner or later, if someone lies to the NHS and someone else contracts the disease and dies from it, a prosecutor is going to hang manslaughter or your equivalent on that person.

It is unfortunate that it will take that level of coercion to get people to be honest.
 
The NHS is going to catch some of those people (the superspreaders) via contact tracing.

Sooner or later, if someone lies to the NHS and someone else contracts the disease and dies from it, a prosecutor is going to hang manslaughter or your equivalent on that person.

It is unfortunate that it will take that level of coercion to get people to be honest.

I mean that's rather more drastic than just saying you can't get in if you don't get the vaccine, isn't it?

The only way the testing thing really works is if you say it's PCR but then you charge - like they are if you go on holiday.

So maybe that will be the next u-turn/compromise?

Get the vaccine, or negative test has to be a PCR and the person has to pay for it?

But then how can that be fair, because why should someone pay for a PCR if they are actually ill or need to know for something else than just going to a club/bar?

It's all crap, it really is, but that's the world we live in now. When people were screaming last year about some people going on walks, or having the nerve to go to the beach, then this is ultimately the path we were on.

I'd rather have to show proof of vaccine status to go to a gig than never be able to go to a gig again.
 
Hang on, I'm in that age group and have had my first jab. Every adult had the chance to get their first dose before July 19th.

The vaccine passports wouldn't be getting introduced until after everyone had had chance to get their second dose plus a two-week extra period for those second doses to have fully kicked in.

But the issue with the negative tests is that they aren't PCR? they're lateral flow - you can literally lie. You just go onto the NHS site and say you've tested negative and scan the lateral flow - it's all about trust. You'd hope most people wouldn't do it, but some obviously would do.

The point is if everyone in there is double jabbed, nobody is likely to end up with severe illness - again, that's the point of the vaccines, not to stop infection entirely because that's pretty much impossible.


Well what's the alternative? I'm fully against making them mandatory, I'm actually against vaccine passports. I just can't see the alternative though. 'Don't be a w*****, get the jab' clearly isn't working, is it?

If someone who is refusing the vaccine can't then go and do stuff they like, then that's on them.

If the point of the vaccines was only to reduce severity of infection then why would we even need vaccine passports or being having a discussion about the threat unvaccinated people pose? It would be a moot point. Clearly it’s about transmission as well.


The entire crew was double jabbed and there was still an outbreak. There are going to be outbreaks amongst the double jabbed. Which can then spread to vulnerable people who are doubled jabbed. We should be accepting of this fact but instead a small insignificant minority of people who won’t/can’t be jabbed will be blamed. Transmission is inevitable. The fact is too many people are convinced the plan is for nobody to get Covid and if they do contract it then we MUST find someone to blame. When in human history have we blamed other people so vehemently over an airborne virus? People need to listen to Whitty. They don’t care if you get Covid- the message is basically stop worrying, hope you’ve been vaccinated and crack on. And yet somehow in September that will need to be changed and we’ll suddenly need vaccine passports?

And you have Covid do you not? The first jab effectiveness in combating the delta variant has been widely proven to be much lower than if you’re double dosed. The government love to put out press releases stating “we have offered everyone a first dose” but that doesn’t tell the full story does it.

Furthermore if you test positive you have to wait 28 days before being able to be jabbed- this has effected two people I know who will now not be double jabbed until October if the 8 weeks between doses timetable holds up. So they’ve been exposed to Covid and they’ll have “natural immunity” but this doesn’t mean anything?

There is also an estimated 5% of people in groups 1-9 who haven’t been fully vaccinated. What is being done to target those individuals? Many of whom I doubt frequent night clubs. Are night clubs and young people an easy target? Or will the idea of a vaccine pass be extended further into other areas of society to encourage these people?

To answer your other question, what is the alternative? The alternative is basically to not implement vaccine passports. Why? Here’s how I read the situation:

“Young people aren’t getting vaccinated. They need to understand they’re at serious risk from this virus and they also pose a serious risk to the community if they carry on acting as they are whilst be unvaccinated”

“Well then why are you allowing them to act in that way before they’ve been double jabbed for several months whilst allowing the virus to spread exponentially amongst that age group?”

Do you see the cognitive dissonance here? The government want to be seen to be doing something. That’s all this amounts to.
Especially as they know an inevitable autumn wave is coming. They have their scapegoats at the ready.

By the time the end of September rolls around then surely a majority of people in the country will have protection from either the vaccine or natural immunity? It’s estimated up to 90% of the population have antibodies.

If you could guarantee me there would be no more lockdowns if we implement vaccine passports I’d be probably be more receptive to them being implemented. As it is, I’m 86% certain we’ll end up with restrictions anyway so this will all be a waste of time.
 
If the point of the vaccines was only to reduce severity of infection then why would we even need vaccine passports or being having a discussion about the threat unvaccinated people pose? It would be a moot point. Clearly it’s about transmission as well.


The entire crew was double jabbed and there was still an outbreak. There are going to be outbreaks amongst the double jabbed. Which can then spread to vulnerable people who are doubled jabbed. We should be accepting of this fact but instead a small insignificant minority of people who won’t/can’t be jabbed will be blamed. Transmission is inevitable. The fact is too many people are convinced the plan is for nobody to get Covid and if they do contract it then we MUST find someone to blame. When in human history have we blamed other people so vehemently over an airborne virus? People need to listen to Whitty. They don’t care if you get Covid- the message is basically stop worrying, hope you’ve been vaccinated and crack on. And yet somehow in September that will need to be changed and we’ll suddenly need vaccine passports?

And you have Covid do you not? The first jab effectiveness in combating the delta variant has been widely proven to be much lower than if you’re double dosed. The government love to put out press releases stating “we have offered everyone a first dose” but that doesn’t tell the full story does it.

Furthermore if you test positive you have to wait 28 days before being able to be jabbed- this has effected two people I know who will now not be double jabbed until October if the 8 weeks between doses timetable holds up. So they’ve been exposed to Covid and they’ll have “natural immunity” but this doesn’t mean anything?

There is also an estimated 5% of people in groups 1-9 who haven’t been fully vaccinated. What is being done to target those individuals? Many of whom I doubt frequent night clubs. Are night clubs and young people an easy target? Or will the idea of a vaccine pass be extended further into other areas of society to encourage these people?

To answer your other question, what is the alternative? The alternative is basically to not implement vaccine passports. Why? Here’s how I read the situation:

“Young people aren’t getting vaccinated. They need to understand they’re at serious risk from this virus and they also pose a serious risk to the community if they carry on acting as they are whilst be unvaccinated”

“Well then why are you allowing them to act in that way before they’ve been double jabbed for several months whilst allowing the virus to spread exponentially amongst that age group?”


Do you see the cognitive dissonance here? The government want to be seen to be doing something. That’s all this amounts to.
Especially as they know an inevitable autumn wave is coming. They have their scapegoats at the ready.

By the time the end of September rolls around then surely a majority of people in the country will have protection from either the vaccine or natural immunity? It’s estimated up to 90% of the population have antibodies.

If you could guarantee me there would be no more lockdowns if we implement vaccine passports I’d be probably be more receptive to them being implemented. As it is, I’m 86% certain we’ll end up with restrictions anyway so this will all be a waste of time.
First point, absolutely, but that message is loud and clear.

Second point, because - as has been explained tons and tons of times - if we don't open up now, then we won't do until next year, spring at the earliest. On that second point, there is definitely also a push for herd immunity in that age group too at the moment. Again, I'm not saying I agree with it, but it seems clear.

Obviously, we can't guarantee anything but one thing that is clear is the vaccine is making people safer. I hate the idea of a draconian, dictatorial system which tracks stuff like this but it's quite frankly the only way out of it. The other suggestion is an even more draconian track and trace and quarantine system, which doesn't really work anyway.

I think the aim of a vaccine pass into certain places like arenas and venues and clubs etc would be so that those places wouldn't have to shut down in the winter.

The vaccines' priority is the stopping of serious illness. By and large they do that, I posted a video in here earlier today that's well worth a watch.

If there's enough natural immunity and people vaccinated, then the prevention against infection will also help.

People need to get this vaccine mate, they just have to. But the ones that now aren't have been told numerous times why they should and, some exceptions aside, still aren't getting it. I'm sorry, it's time to force people's hands. And I say that fully understanding people have genuine concerns and being firmly of the belief it cannot be mandatory.

But there's plenty of things that aren't mandatory that we have, and if not, we don't get to do certain things.
 
Poorer areas have horrendous numbers. Loads of cities have places with similarly bad numbers. Wavertree, Toxteth, Speke etc have really low figures.

What do you think causes it. Low income does not mean low intelligence nor does it mean lower attitude to saving your own life…..
 
At least here in the US some of the hesitancy of low income people is a) time off to get vaccine (especially if work multiple jobs, run own business or are more rural) b) worried about the side effects will mean missing work.

I can understand that, but a) and b) don’t really apply in the U.K. , c) is the same whatever the income level…..
 
I can understand that, but a) and b) don’t really apply in the U.K. , c) is the same whatever the income level…..
dunno Pete, I had to book my jab around work. Work were happy for me to just book it but as I work funny hours I didn't want to get my jab before a long, late shift and feel crap/not be able to work right.

It can definitely be a concern. And I don't have a physical job.

In absolutely no way should it excuse people not getting it, though.
 
I can understand that, but a) and b) don’t really apply in the U.K. , c) is the same whatever the income level…..

There is a difference between not being able to afford bread to affording a golf club membership.

people on lower incomes may feel more disconnected with politics and being told what to do etc,
 
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