Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Tubey]

It won’t be. Shops can already ask people to leave for a wide variety of things, with only a small number of protected things they can’t exclude people for.

That's why I said "in all likelihood" and used the word "discriminate".

It'd have to be challenged in court, but it's likely that under Article 9 of the HRA that not wearing a mask could be seen as 'freedom of thought or belief' and would be as illegal as denying entry to someone wearing a turban. The reason is because the mandation is in effect because of public health and safety; once that has been removed then tacitly it is stated that not wearing a mask is no longer an automatic threat to those things.

Where it could be challenged is if a business could say that the rule applied equally to everyone; however, it doesn't, because we already have medical exemptions to mask wearing, so even now it's illegal to blanket ban people from a shop for not wearing a mask.

One thing is absolutely for sure - Waterstones or any other shops cannot legally mandate people not to wear masks in their store from 19 July.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Some call that leadership I call it dictatorship.

So many governments will never let go of their power control on the population after this pandemic - be careful what you wish for.

Israel are almost completely vaccinated with extremely low deaths. Worrying signs for the rest of us.

Will normality ever return?

 

[Tubey]

Winter viruses and COVID-19 could push NHS to breaking point, warns new report | Imperial News | Imperial College London

COVID-19, influenza, and the respiratory virus Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV), could push the NHS to breaking point this winter, a new report says.

www.imperial.ac.uk

One of the reasons they're opening up in the summer, to try and mitigate this.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Israel are almost completely vaccinated with extremely low deaths. Worrying signs for the rest of us.

Will normality ever return?

Im a big critic of the Tories but they are doing the right thing currently.

You cant moan when Patel wants to ban protests but then want the government to keep restricting peoples everyday lives even after the adult population is vaccinated.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Im a big critic of the Tories but they are doing the right thing currently.

You cant moan when Patel wants to ban protests but then want the government to keep restricting peoples everyday lives even after the adult population is vaccinated.

I believe they're changing the masks to guidance so that they can blame the general public for the winter lockdown that they plan to implement in September/October.

On Monday you should a wear a mask to town but then you can go for a pint at the bar without a mask surrounded by people and go to a nightclub to dance etc. Then the next day mask back on for the trip to Tescos. Makes no sense.

 

[BlueToff]

It won’t be. Shops can already ask people to leave for a wide variety of things, with only a small number of protected things they can’t exclude people for.

But surely in this Waterstones instance, the shop are doing what they can, short of insisting it is mandatory?

It's a sensible approach (by the shop). The only question is, whether it's right for the government to do it now. I think it's a tad early, but I see the other side of the argument that masks aren't going to be mandatory forever, so there is going to be a time when people have to make their own decisions on it. Those decisions should take other people into account, obviously.

I hope that, next spring, masks only have to be worn when people feel they are helping keep other people safe if they have a bug or whatever. Hopefully that's what people have learned from it.

 

[BlueToff]

I believe they're changing the masks to guidance so that they can blame the general public for the winter lockdown that they plan to implement in September/October.

On Monday you should a wear a mask to town but then you can go for a pint at the bar without a mask surrounded by people and go to a nightclub to dance etc. Then the next day mask back on for the trip to Tescos. Makes no sense.

None of the rules anywhere have made sense for 18 months. Why change now?

 

[tsubaki]

So that's what leadership looks like! I'd completely forgotten

Likud will be along shortly to describe this as fascism designed to get women used to wearing the burka.

That's why I said "in all likelihood" and used the word "discriminate".

It'd have to be challenged in court, but it's likely that under Article 9 of the HRA that not wearing a mask could be seen as 'freedom of thought or belief' and would be as illegal as denying entry to someone wearing a turban. The reason is because the mandation is in effect because of public health and safety; once that has been removed then tacitly it is stated that not wearing a mask is no longer an automatic threat to those things.

Where it could be challenged is if a business could say that the rule applied equally to everyone; however, it doesn't, because we already have medical exemptions to mask wearing, so even now it's illegal to blanket ban people from a shop for not wearing a mask.

One thing is absolutely for sure - Waterstones or any other shops cannot legally mandate people not to wear masks in their store from 19 July.

Not really - “belief” doesn’t apply here, as masks in this context are not a religious obligation to wear or not wear. There might be disability discrimination, but that would only apply where someone is actually disabled - not because they don’t like masks.

So in short Waterstones staff could ask people to leave if they refuse to wear a mask. They might get into trouble if the people they ask to leave genuinely have a protected characteristic, but that is it.

 

[BlueToff]

Some call that leadership I call it dictatorship.

So many governments will never let go of their power control on the population after this pandemic - be careful what you wish for.

If the last 18 months has taught me anything it's that a lot of people, who are mostly left wing as well which baffles me as I like to think left wing people are generally more for freedoms, being able to express yourself etc, get absolute hard ons for being told they shouldn't leave the house.

 

[tsubaki]

But surely in this Waterstones instance, the shop are doing what they can, short of insisting it is mandatory?

It's a sensible approach (by the shop). The only question is, whether it's right for the government to do it now. I think it's a tad early, but I see the other side of the argument that masks aren't going to be mandatory forever, so there is going to be a time when people have to make their own decisions on it. Those decisions should take other people into account, obviously.

I hope that, next spring, masks only have to be worn when people feel they are helping keep other people safe if they have a bug or whatever. Hopefully that's what people have learned from it.

I think they are, but there seems to be a belief growing that businesses in particular can’t ask you to leave the premises if they want.

They can, and always have been able to. Saying otherwise is just going to result in a tide of Karen-ing.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

If the last 18 months has taught me anything it's that a lot of people, who are mostly left wing as well which baffles me as I like to think left wing people are generally more for freedoms, being able to express yourself etc, get absolute hard ons for being told they shouldn't leave the house.

The Left are often authoritarian by nature sadly - its very rare these days that you'll find a Leftist with Libertarian views and common sense.

I despise them just as much as the Right these days.

 

[Tubey]

Likud will be along shortly to describe this as fascism designed to get women used to wearing the burka.



Not really - “belief” doesn’t apply here, as masks in this context are not a religious obligation to wear or not wear. There might be disability discrimination, but that would only apply where someone is actually disabled - not because they don’t like masks.

So in short Waterstones staff could ask people to leave if they refuse to wear a mask. They might get into trouble if the people they ask to leave genuinely have a protected characteristic, but that is it.

It'd be an interesting legal case, given that pre-pandemic this wouldn't have been a requirement. I doubt we'll ever see it challenged like.

 

[coollino]

The Left are often authoritarian by nature sadly - its very rare these days that you'll find a Leftist with Libertarian views and common sense.

I despise them just as much as the Right these days.

Left libertarians have been very rare for ages due to the markets etc.

 

[Tubey]

If the last 18 months has taught me anything it's that a lot of people, who are mostly left wing as well which baffles me as I like to think left wing people are generally more for freedoms, being able to express yourself etc, get absolute hard ons for being told they shouldn't leave the house.

It's because it's easy to associate the right with "evil" and things like the word "freedom" with "good".

But the right famously are all about individual liberties. "Freedom" isn't necessarily always "good", as you can see with gun laws in the USA for example, or "laissez faire" and "trickle down" economics. The left are actually more about state control - nationalisation of services and so on.

Left wing libertarianism is for the most part an incompatibility in modern society. It's basically a somewhat good description of some centrists.

 

[tsubaki]

It'd be an interesting legal case, given that pre-pandemic this wouldn't have been a requirement. I doubt we'll ever see it challenged like.

I think we probably will, the existing law has been used for ages by various interest groups to prove points and I can well imagine the anti-mask crowd will be sending people in to stores on Monday morning solely in order that everything is filmed, put online and used.