Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

Eh? Where did that come from? lol

I wouldn't mind if I'd said something contentious - I was literally agreeing with your point.

They don't have a point anymore

 

[grandjoeblue]

It'll be interesting to see how the figures go over the next days. I do think at worst they need to be stabilising.

People spoke yesterday about how it's not a problem for it to rip through the country as long as hospitalisations stay down and that is definitely true for a short period but in the long run we've got hundreds of thousands of children missing school and people missing work.

Schools finishing in a few weeks probably makes things a bit more straight forward for a while.

 

[BlueToff]

And therein lies the problem in achieving a return to "normal" especially in London. If the guidance / regulations remain, that masks must still be worn on public transport and elsewhere, due to the ongoing risk, how do you convince people that it's safe to squeeze in a lift with 30 other people, to get to and from their office ?

I agree that it would be illogical to think, that what is necessary and sensible on the 18th July, can somehow be completely ditched on the 19th. As the responsibility for employee safety rests with the employer in the workplace, someone is going to have to come up with some pretty clever guidance. It's great for Johnson and others to decree that everyone should go back to normal on the19th, it's a different thing entirely to make it happen - safely.

I think it just needs clearing up. There needs to be an indication of what is realistically going to be 'allowed' - but stuff that isn't now open, events, gigs, clubs etc, they need to start being back allowed because people are suffering from it in terms of their careers, the industry, their livelihoods. And it's now - from a trade off perspective - unacceptable.

So they should open those things. Outdoor gigs should be allowed. If that means people have to get a negative test or evidence of the vaccine to go, like the trial events, then so be it. Though they shouldn't then have to be so worried about isolation and stuff after - that in my mind needs to be binned off asap because it's crap. Nobody wants to isolate for 10 days. So it should be a case only IF you test positive that you have to isolate, and in that case, it's when @tsubaki's point about support, and rapid as possible testing etc comes into play.

But, with that stuff hypothetically back open, then the trade off probably has to be that yes, we wear masks on public transport, we wear masks in supermarkets and shops. Maybe table service in pubs etc does remain for the time being heading into the winter.

It's all about trade off. In my mind, I think most people think would accept that trade off, for now. But stuff needs to be back open. It's not on anymore.

 

[tsubaki]

There's no evidence that any of the vaccines provide less protection from being ill or death though, is there.

The basics are there and people's immune systems are mostly enough. With the added bonus of the vaccine, the majority are absolutely fine.

The answers will be boosters which they're working on and it looks like they'll be out with the flu jab in the autumn, but in the meantime you just have to keep using what you have, seeing what happens as you reopen.

Risks have to be taken. The vaccines are offering massive mitigation against those risks - as we're seeing right now.

This isn’t really a response to the point that was raised - at some point, a variant of this is going to emerge that current vaccines are less effective against.

That means current vaccines aren’t going to provide the same level of protection they do now. If that happens, we can expect hospitalisation rates and deaths to go up again. How do we prevent that?

Boosters could help, but they’ll have to be effective against the variant that is at risk, which will require either a booster that works against every conceivable variant (unlikely) or one like the flu jab targeted at the likely variant in circulation that year.

Just saying “vaccines” is falling into the massive logic hole that loads of people are falling into, as if they are the only way out of this because that’s how the UK did it.

 

[BlueToff]

Schools finishing in a few weeks probably makes things a bit more straight forward for a while.

I don't trust the government to do it, but once it's all proven safe etc with the vaccines, and once the adult population is fully offered and done (which is going to be by late September latest) then there should be a vaccination roll out in schools. It will have to take place at the start of next term, but it's more than doable. They do it for TB don't they, when you're 15/16?

The easiest solution.

 

[BlueToff]

This isn’t really a response to the point that was raised - at some point, a variant of this is going to emerge that current vaccines are less effective against.

That means current vaccines aren’t going to provide the same level of protection they do now. If that happens, we can expect hospitalisation rates and deaths to go up again. How do we prevent that?

Boosters could help, but they’ll have to be effective against the variant that is at risk, which will require either a booster that works against every conceivable variant (unlikely) or one like the flu jab targeted at the likely variant in circulation that year.

Just saying “vaccines” is falling into the massive logic hole that loads of people are falling into, as if they are the only way out of this because that’s how the UK did it.

I actually edited my post to include a response to that, so here it is:

The risk would be a variant that is totally immune developing but wouldn't that go against the history of every single virus ever? It is very unlikely that a variant of such potency will develop, but to ensure that vulnerable/older groups have extra protection, the answer will be boosters which they're working on and it looks like they'll be out with the flu jab in the autumn? But in the meantime you just have to keep using what you have, seeing what happens as you reopen.

Basically, this virus would have to act totally different to any other ever in history for the current vaccines to suddenly stop working against serious illness.

They are the only way out of this, because track, test and trace in the current guise is crap. It's completely ruining people's livelihoods, worldwide. And no government should have the authority to just lock someone in their own house because they went to a pub or cafe with someone who ended up getting ill, I don't care if it's for 6 hours or 6 days. That's not sustainable and it's not the life we should want to live.

 

[grandjoeblue]

I don't trust the government to do it, but once it's all proven safe etc with the vaccines, and once the adult population is fully offered and done (which is going to be by late September latest) then there should be a vaccination roll out in schools. It will have to take place at the start of next term, but it's more than doable. They do it for TB don't they, when you're 15/16?

The easiest solution.

Due to the risk being so low for u18 further research should be done on some of the effects of the vaccine. The heart issues etc are a worry.

Not meaning to be anti vac but under 18s are extremely unlikely to get very ill. We need to stop being obsessed with cases and focus on outcomes.

 

[BlueToff]

Due to the risk being so low for u18 further research should be done on some of the effects of the vaccine. The heart issues etc are a worry.

Not meaning to be anti vac but under 18s are extremely unlikely to get very ill. We need to stop being obsessed with cases and focus on outcomes.

Yep. That's why it's about getting adults done first.

That being said, you don't drastically change the moment you turn 18.

The other thing is kids missing large chunks of school and just socialising in general because one of their 'bubble' tested positive. Also makes childcare etc a complete nightmare for people. So it does need to stop asap. If that means a vaccination roll out in schools then that's what it's going to have to be. But maybe just have it as high schools or kids above a certain age.

 

[dannyboy]

Schools finishing in a few weeks probably makes things a bit more straight forward for a while.

That was definitely in their mind with the new release date. Still 3 weeks for most schools though.

 

[tsubaki]

I actually edited my post to include a response to that, so here it is:

The risk would be a variant that is totally immune developing but wouldn't that go against the history of every single virus ever? It is very unlikely that a variant of such potency will develop, but to ensure that vulnerable/older groups have extra protection, the answer will be boosters which they're working on and it looks like they'll be out with the flu jab in the autumn? But in the meantime you just have to keep using what you have, seeing what happens as you reopen.

Basically, this virus would have to act totally different to any other ever in history for the current vaccines to suddenly stop working against serious illness.

“Suddenly stop working” is again something that wasn’t said, and lots of flu vaccines do not work as well on subsequent variants of flu.

 

[Tipp blue]

They just announced that indoor dining and drinking is to be delayed in Ireland, judging by comment sections on some of the websites Northern Ireland are in for a bumper year for tourism from the south. An absolutely idiotic move by the government especially when you consider that 60% of the republics population live within a 90 minute drive to the north where things are open.

 

[Tramps_mate]

Today.

20,479 new cases and 23 new deaths

 

[grandjoeblue]

Today.

20,479 new cases and 23 new deaths

Surprised deaths are lower than last week.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Hospital figures - 20 deaths were announced today, up 17 on yesterday and down 5 on last Tuesday. All 20 deaths were in English hospitals, up 18 on yesterday and down 5 on last week. The 7 day rolling average falls to 14.14

All settings - for the 28 day cut off, 23 deaths were announced today, up 20 on yesterday and down 4 on last Tuesday. The 7 day rolling average falls to 16.86

For the 60 day cut off, 26 deaths were announced today, up 23 on yesterday and down 12 on last Tuesday. The 7 day rolling average falls to 21.29

 

[Neiler]

AZ interval cut over from 12 weeks to 8 weeks last week, has now been cut to four weeks between doses over here now.

Looks like we’re trying to baton down the hatches on the inevitable seeding of Delta.