Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Barnfred 55]

Yep, I think the school return had everyone keeping an eye on the numbers, but as you say, nothing.....

The numbers stabilised for the first few weeks, but that was undoubtedly due to the 800k additional daily tests being done in schools and some Universities. But these would nearly all have been asymptomatic, so catching them and isolating them stopped the spread of the disease even more.

I bet the government are delighted with the way infections have gone since schools reopened.

Let's hope we don't get a surge in cases after phase 2 of reopening next week. The average for the last 7 days is slightly over 3000. I'll see what that is on Sunday, then check again four weeks in. They may be mass testing schoolkids again by then so hat may need to be factored in.

 

[Goat]

Random post on Reddit which highlights a concern for me :

It's just very concerning overall how they totally covered this all up here in the UK. The UK has given out the most AZ doses in Europe by far, but there was no mention of blood clot deaths until European countries starting repeatedly raising the issue. Then suddenly the UK announced a few blood clots but no deaths. Then it suddenly jumped to 30 blood clots and a few deaths. Now it's 79 blood clots and 19 deaths. These didn't suddenly happen in the last week, they've just not been telling us.

We would've never have heard of those 19 deaths and we would've been kept in the dark if EU countries hadn't flagged this up. We probably wouldn't have this age restriction now either. How can we trust the government or the NHS on vaccines after this?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And I've said there is a link between rare blood clots and the AZ vaccine in about half a dozen posts today and yesterday Bruce. Even before this announcement was made.

But there is a difference between acknowledging a link and investigating it, and announcing that a whole demographic of the population will not be given the vaccine, when there is no evidence to validate that decision. For the umpteenth time, 90% of the cases were women, and many, if not most of those women were over the age of 30.

*shrug* maybe you know something that several health agencies from around the world don't. There are other vaccines available so if jurisdictions are unsure about the safety/efficacy of a vaccine in a demographic then it makes perfect sense to give them another one.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think they’re advising those who have had first jab to go ahead with second.

Yeah I know Billy.

My question is, what is the mindset of those people being asked to take a second dose of AZ, knowing that the Government is now stopping that particular vaccine for other people that age on health grounds.?

If it was me, I honestly wouldn't have a problem. I'd look at the number of overall cases against doses of vaccine given, and I'd also look at the demographic and think the risk is absolutely minimal. I'm 60 though. If I was a woman, I might think a little differently. If I was a woman taking the contraceptive pill I might look at it differently again.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah I know Billy.

My question is, what is the mindset of those people being asked to take a second dose of AZ, knowing that the Government is now stopping that particular vaccine for other people that age on health grounds.?

If it was me, I honestly wouldn't have a problem. I'd look at the number of overall cases against doses of vaccine given, and I'd also look at the demographic and think the risk is absolutely minimal. I'm 60 though. If I was a woman, I might think a little differently. If I was a woman taking the contraceptive pill I might look at it differently again.

Flip it around. My 21 year old niece is on warfarin due to a heart problem. She's had her first dose, what would you give her for her second? If you have doubts when giving your answer then surely it's right that they displaying caution?

 

[roydo]

*shrug* maybe you know something that several health agencies from around the world don't. There are other vaccines available so if jurisdictions are unsure about the safety/efficacy of a vaccine in a demographic then it makes perfect sense to give them another one.

I very much doubt that other vaccines wont have similar issues. If it is actually an "issue" anyrate. Unless all the others have discovered a miracle ingredient that Oxford University didnt think of.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I very much doubt that other vaccines wont have similar issues. If it is actually an "issue" anyrate. Unless all the others have discovered a miracle ingredient that Oxford University didnt think of.

They're designed in different ways. As Eric Topol said earlier, you're 50x more likely to have blood clot issues with the AZ vaccine than with mRNA-based vaccines.

 

[roydo]

They're designed in different ways. As Eric Topol said earlier, you're 50x more likely to have blood clot issues with the AZ vaccine than with mRNA-based vaccines.

I dont know what a mRNA vaccine is.

 

[Barnfred 55]

*shrug* maybe you know something that several health agencies from around the world don't. There are other vaccines available so if jurisdictions are unsure about the safety/efficacy of a vaccine in a demographic then it makes perfect sense to give them another one.

And I've said I would 100% do that, once I had more idea what the link was, who in particular was more at risk and why. I can show you a couple of posts from the last 2 days when I've said exactly that.

But the MHRA have just come out and said under 30s will not be given the AZ vaccine, and, to be honest, I'm not sure that any male under 30s have even been affected by these rare blood clots. If so, there could only have been a handful out of all the cases. The overwhelming majority have been women as we know.

Look. My fear is that the vaccination program has been undermined by this announcement. That's just my opinion and I may be completely wrong. If so, no harm done. But I'm sure there's plenty of people out there in there 30s and 40s who will be getting asked to take the AZ jab, that are now less confident about it than they were a few hours ago. That includes you Bruce. Is your attitude any different?, or have you already had a Pfizer jab through your missus.?

 

[Cool_Blue]

Today is a disaster for the world's response to this virus and, in my view, completely unnecessary.

I have no problem with clots being listed as a rare side effect, but to limit the use of the AZ vaccine in a certain age group means confidence in it will plummet now.

Well the worries about running out of supplies for second jabs seem to have receded with this news. Mine’s due in 3-4 weeks, so there should be plenty of AZ available in my GP’s fridge. Sniff it Prof Macron.

 

[jinkyali]

So all the under 30s health and care workers waiting on their second jabs. And all those in their 30s and early 40s, especially the women who seems to be the ones suffering most of the rare clotting cases. Basically most of those still to be vaccinated.

Your putting a lot of emphasis on those women actually taking much interest. Plus under 30s who've had one jab are to get the 2nd.

Huge panic I reckon from a lot on here.

 

[tsubaki]

Random post on Reddit which highlights a concern for me :

It's just very concerning overall how they totally covered this all up here in the UK. The UK has given out the most AZ doses in Europe by far, but there was no mention of blood clot deaths until European countries starting repeatedly raising the issue. Then suddenly the UK announced a few blood clots but no deaths. Then it suddenly jumped to 30 blood clots and a few deaths. Now it's 79 blood clots and 19 deaths. These didn't suddenly happen in the last week, they've just not been telling us.

We would've never have heard of those 19 deaths and we would've been kept in the dark if EU countries hadn't flagged this up. We probably wouldn't have this age restriction now either. How can we trust the government or the NHS on vaccines after this?

Appearing to cover things up is nearly always what causes the trust damage, so that posts like that are made shouldn't be surprising.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I dont know what a mRNA vaccine is.

I think it's what Pfizer and Moderna use.

 

[Tin-Tin]

The blood clots are worrying but when you consider how many doses have been administered its a tiny fraction, not a major scandal. Every single drug from something as common as paracetemol has side effects and there will be people who have adverse reactions. There is no drug, whether prescription, herbal etc that has zero reactions in 100% of people who take it.

Its good that people are being offered an elternative should they choose but this isnt a massive deal in my opinion.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Flip it around. My 21 year old niece is on warfarin due to a heart problem. She's had her first dose, what would you give her for her second? If you have doubts when giving your answer then surely it's right that they displaying caution?

I'm sure I read somewhere that none of the cases found were already suffering from existing blood clot or low platelet conditions. And the fact that your niece is already on warfarin would suggest to me that it would help ensure that new clots didn't form.

But I'm not a doctor and I don't know your nieces condition. If her doctor advised that she shouldn't take it then fair enough, who am I to argue. But there will always be exceptions. My brother is recovering from a stem cell transfusion and he desperately wants a vaccine, but they won't let him. But let's not use this specific case of your niece to justify not giving the vaccine to a whole demographic.