Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Number_25]

Nothing we can do about that though - the flu could mutate into a killer strain and wipe us out every year but we still live with it.

Up until Covid hit no one gave a 2nd thought about "what if the flu mutated into a disease X" now everyones become a FB scientist and paranoid over Covid.

Couldnt live my life terrified of what ifs me.

There is something we can do about it. We can ensure that the transmission rate of the virus is kept to a minimum, vaccinate against the strains that we currently have and wait it out until the virus is no longer an issue.

I have a PhD in Biological Sciences, so I'm not really a Facebook scientist.

It would be an astonishing failure of society if we allow all of the good work to be made redundant because we were unable to remain steadfast in beating this thing.

 

[tsubaki]

I was waiting for this.

How is it 'victim blaming' to point out that we're country full of irresponsible nobends?

Because we’ve no idea if it’s the irresponsible nobends who are responsible for spreading this; in fact it terms of tying individual behaviour to specific outbreaks we’ve only ever done that very rarely.

Most of the time the government had got no idea how the spread was happening, hence the lockdown. This is of course because of the complete absence of, and then complete failure of, track, trace and isolate. That’s something the government bear 100% of the responsibility for.

Then you come to enforcement of what measures the government have put in - for which they’ve not done much, just loaded it onto an already overstretched PHE and local police forces, without funding to do it properly.

So instead of admit that and fix it, they’ve turned to one of their favourite things - identifying a few genuine cretins, publicising their idiocy and then trying to get everyone to think it’s those people’s fault (that we are in lockdown, that people have died, that someone else is cheating etc).

Policy announcement after policy announcement is aimed at dealing with the “COVidiots”, rather than where the actual problems are. The result is the problems continue, and we get angrier at the people who aren’t responsible.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

There is something we can do about it. We can ensure that the transmission rate of the virus is kept to a minimum, vaccinate against the strains that we currently have and wait it out until the virus is no longer an issue.

I have a PhD in Biological Sciences, so I'm not really a Facebook scientist.

It would be an astonishing failure of society if we allow all of the good work to be made redundant because we were unable to remain steadfast in beating this thing.

You do realise this pandemic is global and we live in a global system?

Its going to take years if not decades to eradicate every strain of Covid particularly in 3rd world nations that dont have the large supply of vaccines / track and trace system.

Good luck keeping the world in lockdown for another few years.

The priority is simple:

1. Stop as many people dying as possible
2. Stop the NHS being overrun
3. Get the economy back moving before we collapse

The vaccines allow all of those things whilst we can look to find boosters to eradicate future worrying strains.

 

[grandjoeblue]

There is something we can do about it. We can ensure that the transmission rate of the virus is kept to a minimum, vaccinate against the strains that we currently have and wait it out until the virus is no longer an issue.

I have a PhD in Biological Sciences, so I'm not really a Facebook scientist.

It would be an astonishing failure of society if we allow all of the good work to be made redundant because we were unable to remain steadfast in beating this thing.

Wait it out until the virus is no longer an issue?

That will never happen. The virus is here forever now. Once it reached countries that can't lockdown it will always be here.

 

[tsubaki]

You do realise this pandemic is global and we live in a global system?

Its going to take years if not decades to eradicate every strain of Covid particularly in 3rd world nations that dont have the large supply of vaccines / track and trace system.

Good luck keeping the world in lockdown for another few years.

The priority is simple:

1. Stop as many people dying as possible
2. Stop the NHS being overrun
3. Get the economy back moving before we collapse

The vaccines allow all of those things whilst we can look to find boosters to eradicate future worrying strains.

This is just recycled nonsense though - most of the rest of the world isn’t in lockdown, because they’ve managed to control this more than we have.

You’re right, we live in a global system but part of that requires all parts of the system to deal with outbreaks responsibly and effectively. Us vaccinating our population so most of us aren’t seriously affected but still being potentially able to spread it is likely to just present an ongoing risk to other countries that they’ll have to manage.

As for eradication of it - the time to do that is now, not after we’ve let it spread far further across the globe.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

This is just recycled nonsense though - most of the rest of the world isn’t in lockdown, because they’ve managed to control this more than we have.

You’re right, we live in a global system but part of that requires all parts of the system to deal with outbreaks responsibly and effectively. Us vaccinating our population so most of us aren’t seriously affected but still being potentially able to spread it is likely to just present an ongoing risk to other countries that they’ll have to manage.

As for eradication of it - the time to do that is now, not after we’ve let it spread far further across the globe.

Lets wait and see mate.

You're living in a fantasy world of sunshine and rainbows and think we'll turn into Taiwan or somewhere once we hit 21st June when in reality pubs and bars will be packed to the rafters with not a face mask in sight.

The vaccines are our only way of out this mess. to think 1. The Western World will change its ways or 2. We'll continue living like this for the following years is living in la la land.

My advice is move to an Eastern Nation if you're that concerned as not much will be changing in Europe/the US anytime soon.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Agreed Macron's comments were stupid and probably did some damage, as well as the Handelsblatt leak before that and also Frank Montgomery's comments. But that article suggests all that might be overblown and the real problem is more a logistical one. I don't really know what's going on in France but in Germany there is a lot of criticism going around that the regions and the national government are simply not well enough organised to get people vaccinated. Seems the public sector is drowning in its own bureaucracy. There have been arguments about which under 65s should get the AZ vax and in the meantime it seems hardly anyone is getting it lol They've had about 6 weeks since the STIKO ruling to figure that out. Apparently teachers and other child supervisors have been bumped up the order but still there seems to be not much moving on that front. A bit hard to see what's really going on. Also some regions are hoarding 50% of their doses in fear that deliveries dry up again and those that have their first dose can't then get their second. There have been people turning their noses up at the AZ vax but as that article suggests it may be overblown. I think the German health minister agreed yesterday that doses could be spaced out, but let's see how quickly that actually gets implemented, if at all.

Yes Montgomery is a self promoting half wit who should know far better of the potential damage his unguarded 'look at me aren't i controversial' comments can make. His main point regarding any efficacy gap between vaccines is at best misleading, and at worst plain idiotic and downright irresponsible. The 70% efficacy is easily enough and more than most vaccines, some flu vaccinations run with 30 odd percent immunity to some stains rising to over 50% against others.

To hold such an honorary position as chairman of the board of the World Medical Association and seriously hamper the world effort in the name of self publicity and lots of TV appearances was self promotion at its very worst.

One letter was widely reported to the World Medical Association President David Barbe from Germany's leading association of medical specialists accusing Montgomery of being a self-promoter and of interfering negatively in national affairs - unusually strong words for the medical profession. For example, he said, Montgomery's statements about AstraZeneca were unacceptable. "Anyone who, for reasons of self-promotion, casts doubt on the efficacy and benefits of this vaccine and advises against vaccinating medical personnel with it sends - we believe - a fatal signal to our medical colleagues in the developing world, who are thus left unprotected in their fight against Covid-19."

The letter also unmistakably signals that Montgomery is not up to his tasks in the World Medical Association in the opinion of the association. "Unfortunately, Professor Frank Ulrich Montgomery, using every available opportunity of public appearances in Germany (...) does not show that he intends with his statements to do justice to the responsibility assigned to him with his function in the World Medical Association for all physicians in the world."

In the meantime, it continues, Mongomery's statements are "no longer perceived with the necessary seriousness," even in German politics, so that the reputation of the World Medical Association is suffering. One demands therefore in the future "expressly" a measure of restraint

 

[Billy Dean]

Yes Montgomery is a self promoting half wit who should know far better of the potential damage his unguarded 'look at me aren't i controversial' comments can make. His main point regarding any efficacy gap between vaccines is at best misleading, and at worst plain idiotic and downright irresponsible. The 70% efficacy is easily enough and more than most vaccines, some flu vaccinations run with 30 odd percent immunity to some stains rising to over 50% against others.

To hold such an honorary position as chairman of the board of the World Medical Association and seriously hamper the world effort in the name of self publicity and lots of TV appearances was self promotion at its very worst.

One letter was widely reported to the World Medical Association President David Barbe from Germany's leading association of medical specialists accusing Montgomery of being a self-promoter and of interfering negatively in national affairs - unusually strong words for the medical profession. For example, he said, Montgomery's statements about AstraZeneca were unacceptable. "Anyone who, for reasons of self-promotion, casts doubt on the efficacy and benefits of this vaccine and advises against vaccinating medical personnel with it sends - we believe - a fatal signal to our medical colleagues in the developing world, who are thus left unprotected in their fight against Covid-19."

The letter also unmistakably signals that Montgomery is not up to his tasks in the World Medical Association in the opinion of the association. "Unfortunately, Professor Frank Ulrich Montgomery, using every available opportunity of public appearances in Germany (...) does not show that he intends with his statements to do justice to the responsibility assigned to him with his function in the World Medical Association for all physicians in the world."

In the meantime, it continues, Mongomery's statements are "no longer perceived with the necessary seriousness," even in German politics, so that the reputation of the World Medical Association is suffering. One demands therefore in the future "expressly" a measure of restraint

Yes thankfully pretty much the whole German medical fraternity has come out and called him a massive tit but still his comments will most likely have registered with some people.

 

[tsubaki]

Lets wait and see mate.

You're living in a fantasy world of sunshine and rainbows and think we'll turn into Taiwan or somewhere once we hit 21st June when in reality pubs and bars will be packed to the rafters with not a face mask in sight.

The vaccines are our only way of out this mess. to think 1. The Western World will change its ways or 2. We'll continue living like this for the following years is living in la la land.

My advice is move to an Eastern Nation if you're that concerned as not much will be changing in Europe/the US anytime soon.

It’s the fact you’ve learned nothing from this disaster that’s the most troubling thing, really. The fact other countries dealt with this better than we did, that our failure cost tens of thousands of people’s lives is nothing - we’ve got to go back to our red-faced, common-sense existence.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I was waiting for this.

How is it 'victim blaming' to point out that we're country full of irresponsible nobends?

I don't think the country is necessarily full of irresponsible nobends but we certainly have our fair share. And they come from all walks of life so it's impossible to pigeonhole them and blame any specific sector. I just wish there were less of them.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

It’s the fact you’ve learned nothing from this disaster that’s the most troubling thing, really. The fact other countries dealt with this better than we did, that our failure cost tens of thousands of people’s lives is nothing - we’ve got to go back to our red-faced, common-sense existence.

Its not about learning anything its about accepting reality.

People know eating crap, drinking coca cola and intaking sugar damages you but millions do it anyway and telling them otherwise gets you nowhere.

The economy is a mess, life is just existence and people have barely kept to the rules with hundreds dying a day - there is no way once everyone has had 2 doses and the death/hospital rates plummit will the population accept further restrictions on their lives/livelihoods its just not happening mate.

Even places like Australia who've done well have done so with certain restrictions- what happens if they want to host a world cup or rugby comp in future and have thousands coming in from overseas? Lockdown for 5 days soon as someone visiting comes down with a cough? Its unsustainable

 

[davek]

@davek I don't think that article produces anything significant. It also assumes that lower efficacy = death which is unlikely to be the case.

Minor cases are not a problem. If the vaccine prevents deaths those estimates will be completely wrong.

I think it gives an overview of what the science sees now re vaccines: the variants (which were always going to happen in a population unprotected) will make it fundamental that the non-vaccine means we have at our disposal are deployed in order to suppress the virus.

There cant be any summer of 2020. There just cant. Not if we're serious about saving lives. Super spreader events are completely off the agenda in such circumstances, and anything involving people being indoors outside their home for any lengthy period is also a terrible idea and should be avoided.

 

[davek]

But deaths will be down as the most vulnerable are now protected.

Allow this virus room to evolve and it'll come up with a variant that evades the vaccines completely. Mass death will soon follow.

 

[Charro]

Allow this virus room to evolve and it'll come up with a variant that evades the vaccines completely. Mass death will soon follow.

You think they’ll be a variant more deadly than the original virus that will completely evade the vaccine to such an extent it will cause mass death?

That’s some prediction, I must say. What’s your reasoning for this?

I mean, we all know variants are a danger, but they’re just the nature of this virus and it would surprise me to see mass deaths as the result of a new variant.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Infections are staying stubbornly high after 2 months of lockdown.

They will spike up even more when the schools return. That is no situation to be in.

It's a gradual reduction of around 25% week on week. If it continues in that vein for the next month until the next phase of opening up in mid April, we could be down to around 1000 infections per week. That is a similar level as last summer when we were only testing around 15% of what we are now.

In my view there won't be a spike when schools return, just a potential slow down in the reduction to the infection rate. But even this I expect to be offset by the effects of the vaccination process on infections.

Let's wait a month and see which one of us is correct.