Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

Looks like the UK is on course to have offered a first dose to all over 50s by the end of May, great news - and the minister in charge has confirmed that's even with knowing the supply up until then.

That will be combined with loads of people getting their second jab in between March and May too.

 

[adi dassler]

It’s not really.

What is it then?

 

[CharliePotato]

What is it then?

What’s what?

 

[Neiler]

AstraZeneca vaccine is less effective against South African variant, research says

The company believes the jab is still effective against severe disease caused by the South African variant.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[Tubey]

Looks like the UK is on course to have offered a first dose to all over 50s by the end of May, great news - and the minister in charge has confirmed that's even with knowing the supply up until then.

That will be combined with loads of people getting their second jab in between March and May too.

It's looking like it could be quicker than that. We don't even have mass vaccination sites online really yet, and Moderna comes online in April.

 

[Tubey]

We all want it to work. However, we have to face the fact that some vaccines will need more work done on them than others. That Reuters piece isn't exactly confidence inspiring on the efficacy of the AZ virus with that particular variant.

IMO, the data right from the off has positioned AZ as a vaccine that will be of use rolling out internationally to get a base of at least some protection for some people. It was meant to be that way too: a cheap vaccine that can be made in high volume to ship out. AZ IIRC aren't a Big Pharma company with a great deal of experience in vaccine production, and perhaps it's being demonstrated now.

Efficacy will change as the virus mutates. Immunogenicity is the bigger factor, and all vaccines are showing extremely high effectiveness in that regard.

Efficacy above 50% stops the virus transmitting as freely. A strong immunogenic stops the virus killing.

 

[Tubey]

Incredible this. More than one reason for it of course, but it's still hard to comprehend the difference.

On the plus side, the overall take-up is easily on course to be strong enough.

 

[BlueStevie35]

What’s what?

The death total, since you’re adamant it’s not 110k+

 

[adi dassler]

What’s what?

what’s the number of people that have died due to covid?

 

[davek]

Oh look, I was right.

Study after study has identified indoor spaces — particularly restaurants, where consistent masking is not possible — as some of the highest-risk locations for transmission to occur. Even with distanced tables, case studies have shown that droplets can travel long distances within dining establishments, sometimes helped along by air conditioning...While vaccines bring hope, she said, governors who are moving to expand indoor dining are “completely reckless”; if they don’t course correct, “I don’t think it’s hyperbolic to say the worst could be yet to come.”

Remember this when our own giant virus variant, Johnson the murderer, gives the green light to restaurants to open up again in the spring.

 

[Moomin]

 

[davek]

Where then should citizens turn for accountability, if they don’t find it in their leaders and feel unsupported by experts and the media? The law remains one form of redress, and indeed some legal avenues, including criminal negligence and misconduct in public office, are being explored,1819 although proving any such claims will be difficult and drawn out. But the notion of murder, at least “social murder,” is hard to shake emotionally, and strengthens with every denial of responsibility and every refusal to be held accountable or to change course...The “social murder” of populations is more than a relic of a bygone age. It is very real today, exposed and magnified by covid-19. It cannot be ignored or spun away. Politicians must be held to account by legal and electoral means, indeed by any national and international constitutional means necessary.

Indeed

 

[Spadge Vernacular]

It is a thought-provoking piece. You have to wonder though if as a people we have the belief for such a battle or the stomach for it. It would seem logical to assume that those in the firing line would deflect blame, rightfully so in many respects, to China and in the same train of thought look to apply the measures in the link below to take the heat off. Chances are though, that for many simply getting back to normal will be like VE day and the spin will be lost amid the relief and partying.

China Is Legally Responsible for COVID-19 Damage and Claims Could Be in the Trillions

As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its

warontherocks.com

 

[davek]

It is a thought-provoking piece. You have to wonder though if as a people we have the belief for such a battle or the stomach for it. It would seem logical to assume that those in the firing line would deflect blame, rightfully so in many respects, to China and in the same train of thought look to apply the measures in the link below to take the heat off. Chances are though, that for many simply getting back to normal will be like VE day and the spin will be lost amid the relief and partying.

China Is Legally Responsible for COVID-19 Damage and Claims Could Be in the Trillions

As the novel coronavirus incubated in Wuhan from mid-December to mid-January, the Chinese state made evidently intentional misrepresentations to its

warontherocks.com

You're actually trying to counter a viewpoint of an article in the BMJ with one from some loony pro-war website?

Lol.

 

[Neiler]

Efficacy will change as the virus mutates. Immunogenicity is the bigger factor, and all vaccines are showing extremely high effectiveness in that regard.

Efficacy above 50% stops the virus transmitting as freely. A strong immunogenic stops the virus killing.

It can work the opposite way though to mate, you can have a high efficacy vaccine, with a low immune response to provoke a reaction amongst certain groups. It’s why AZ isnt being used on over 55 and up in some countries. It’s also happened with other vaccines in the past, hepatitis springs to mind.

The same problems in looking at efficacy are the same in working out immunogenicity. It’s actually impossible to work out the Immunogenicity of the vaccines presently as we don’t know how long antibodies last for, nor the long term TCell benefit if any or what sliding scale our immune response may lapse in an unknown time frame or in different environments, even comparing the vaccines.

Essentially you or I don’t know yet, what our immune response will be! My immune system might be primed today after getting dose 2 during the week, but if I go on Safari to South Africa in August, my immune response may or may not have declined, we just don’t know yet. We’re really just working of initial early vaccine results - but they can and likely will change over time in different circumstances.

All data is useful, there isn’t one stat to rule them all in my opinion, efficacy tells us how efficient a vaccine is in a controlled sample of vaccine Vs placebo in a double/triple blinded trial, immunogenicity tells us what our immune response is - but we can’t be anything but general and limited on that presently, we don’t know if it’s consistent amount different sub-sets of population, it’s rate of depleting and how long it lasts just in a few short weeks therefore any data is limited at the moment - before we look at variants- essentially it’s a moving target, they are all essential facets of working out immunogenicity. We should know more in a few months. It’s why many are cautious on vaccines giving permission of “getting back to normal” As I said all data has its useful and no one stat rules them all.