Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[davek]

Havd to agree, quite mad I was reading Whittys comments yesterday to and was more worried by similar optimism, he’s CMO. All chips seem on the vaccine “curing” this.

Elsewise hear Oxford are about to do a study on mixing doses of vaccines, eg 1 dose Pfizer 1 dose AZ. The idea is to make the supply chain less complicated.

Two are different types of vaccine. I wonder how they backtrack on that as a few weeks ago they were saying if you had one you need to get the second same vaccine?

Whitty, Hayward etc: the prostration of some of the scientific community to political objectives is a sad feature of this crisis. That's just encouraging a summer splurge lacking in all discipline and then storing up mass fatalities for the next winter.

 

[davek]

The way that old man was allowed to travel to Barbados - encouraged by an airline to do so (who paid for the trip) - with no intervention from government that it was not the right time to do that and probably never was given his age, is a microcosm of the mismanagement of this crisis in the UK.

He was a figurehead of sorts for many and should have been preserved for morale. But government and business interests won out and they killed him prematurely.

That's another one murdered by them.

 

[Neiler]

Two are different types of vaccine. I wonder how they backtrack on that as a few weeks ago they were saying if you had one you need to get the second same vaccine?

Whitty, Hayward etc: the prostration of some of the scientific community to political objectives is a sad feature of this crisis. That's just encouraging a summer splurge lacking in all discipline and then storing up mass fatalities for the next winter.

The narrative reminded me of the spirit of eat and to help out, it’s counter productive because unlesss promises are kept you are accountable. I was really surprised especially at a CMO, maybe I’m to used to our CMO, he has a very risk averse approach.

 

[Charro]

The whole thing is an insult to everybody that has died of this virus.

A 100 year old man has near on three days of remembrance because his family, along with the media and government created a very calculated PR campaign to use him as a vehicle to distract us all from the real issues, so they can all use him for their own self gratification.

Now he’s used as an inspiring figure that brought the nation together during hards times. No he didn’t, tell that to the families that lost loved ones needlessly.

‘Oh but it was a positive story during a time of crisis’.

I don’t need an old man walking around the garden to find positive things in life and neither should anyone else.

For me, he’s a symbol of everything that’s wrong in this country and our small minded mentality.

 

[ramacca]

Study: international travel biggest factor in death rate​

Early restrictions on international travel might have made a difference in the spread of pandemic in western Europe, including the UK, a new study has found.
Restrictions on international travel had the greatest impact on death rates, according to a study from the University of Aberdeen.
It compared the 37 countries most severely affected by the first wave of the pandemic and looked into a range of factor that could have effected transmission including international arrivals, population density, the percentage of people living in urban areas, age, average body mass index and smoking prevalence.
They found a million international arrivals was associated with a 3.4% increase in Covid-19 deaths during the first wave of the pandemic.
One of the study’s authors Tiberiu Pana, said:

Our assessment of available data indicates that very early restrictions on international travel might have made a difference in the spread of pandemic in western Europe, including the UK.
These findings are particularly important as the world looks to control future waves and strains of the Covid-19 pandemic and prevent related deaths.

But according to Whitty in 2018,

"It's therefore possible, but wrong ... that we're increasingly vulnerable to epidemics... wrong to claim we are vulnerable to epidemics because of the massive travel by land, sea and air....However, the reason this is not as worrying as it looks is that being rich as a society massively hardens society against any epidemics of any sort'

https://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/epidemics-pandemics-control (5.25 onwards)

Doesn't he look a fool after 100 000 plus deaths and an epidemic still ravaging the country. What a quack.

 

[grandjoeblue]

What planet is this educated fool living on?

Prof Andrew Hayward - a member of the UK government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) - says that, once the most vulnerable in society have been vaccinated, a return to normality is within reach.

He tells BBC Radio 4's Today Programme: "Once the most vulnerable people, particularly those over 50 and those with chronic illnesses, are vaccinated then yes I think we can see a significant return to normality.

"That, in addition to the fact coronavirus is a seasonal disease, I think will make a big difference and allow us to open up.

"I think what we'll see is a phased opening up as the vaccination levels increase, and then we will be more or less back to normal for the summer, I would imagine."

That is utter bollocks. No wonder we're snookered when we have a corrupt and murderous political class being informed by arseholes like this.

Sorry, whats the problem with that comment?

Once over 95% of hospitalisations and deaths are prevented surely normality can resume?

 

[ramacca]

Johnson must have changed his mind about 'gestures'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Havd to agree, quite mad I was reading Whittys comments yesterday to and was more worried by similar optimism, he’s CMO. All chips seem on the vaccine “curing” this.

Elsewise hear Oxford are about to do a study on mixing doses of vaccines, eg 1 dose Pfizer 1 dose AZ. The idea is to make the supply chain less complicated.

Oxford leads first trial investigating dosing with alternating vaccines

The University of Oxford is to lead the first trial to explore alternating different COVID-19 vaccines, to explore the potential for flexibility in delivery and look for clues as to how to increase the breadth of protection against new virus strains.

www.ox.ac.uk

With regards to Hayward's comments, what is the alternative? For the vast majority who get the virus it isn't a major health concern, so once those for whom it does tend to be a major health concern are vaccinated, what else are we seriously suggesting here? Lockdown until no cases exist anywhere in the world? I was very much of the impression that this is going to be with us now, much as the flu is with us, and will therefore require annual vaccinations to protect the vulnerable. If that is the case then we have to learn, as a society, to function with this. I haven't heard anyone suggest it will be eradicated completely?

 

[Neiler]

Dog rough today after the second Pfizer Jab yesterday, had to take the day of work! Banging headaches, chills, nausea, dizziness and fatiuqe all came on overnight, round two defo tougher then round 1 at least for me anyway!

Least we know it works and immune system doing its job!

 

[tsubaki]

Oxford leads first trial investigating dosing with alternating vaccines

The University of Oxford is to lead the first trial to explore alternating different COVID-19 vaccines, to explore the potential for flexibility in delivery and look for clues as to how to increase the breadth of protection against new virus strains.

www.ox.ac.uk

With regards to Hayward's comments, what is the alternative? For the vast majority who get the virus it isn't a major health concern, so once those for whom it does tend to be a major health concern are vaccinated, what else are we seriously suggesting here? Lockdown until no cases exist anywhere in the world? I was very much of the impression that this is going to be with us now, much as the flu is with us, and will therefore require annual vaccinations to protect the vulnerable. If that is the case then we have to learn, as a society, to function with this. I haven't heard anyone suggest it will be eradicated completely?

No, but really there’s no reason why we shouldn’t have a system to try and detect and prevent new outbreaks of this (or other diseases), and the population know what to do to prevent sicknesses like this spreading.

I know this wasn’t your point, but I’ve seen a lot of dubious folk raise that flu point as a definition of “normal”, forgetting that it might actually be possible to prevent some of the many thousand flu deaths a year as well if we just changed our behaviours and the government was more active (and had the capability to do that). I mean SK has 3000 flu deaths last year; we had 16000.

 

[Charro]

Btw £150m was raised by people in this country for the NHS charities and most of it still hasn't been handed out.

But we only hear about the £30m raised by captain Tom, don’t we. Wonder if him being in the war has anything to do with it?

 

[grandjoeblue]

No, but really there’s no reason why we shouldn’t have a system to try and detect and prevent new outbreaks of this (or other diseases), and the population know what to do to prevent sicknesses like this spreading.

I know this wasn’t your point, but I’ve seen a lot of dubious folk raise that flu point as a definition of “normal”, forgetting that it might actually be possible to prevent some of the many thousand flu deaths a year as well if we just changed our behaviours and the government was more active (and had the capability to do that). I mean SK has 3000 flu deaths last year; we had 16000.

You can't prevent all deaths. Everyone is going to die eventually. People live to a very old age in the UK and eventually bodies fail resulting in deaths from flu and other issues.

Once the risk is minimised normality has to resume. If there was a particularly bad strain of flu like 2018 potentially people should wear masks on transport for a few weeks. Alternatively sick pay could be increased so that people don't go into work when they are ill.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, but really there’s no reason why we shouldn’t have a system to try and detect and prevent new outbreaks of this (or other diseases), and the population know what to do to prevent sicknesses like this spreading.

I know this wasn’t your point, but I’ve seen a lot of dubious folk raise that flu point as a definition of “normal”, forgetting that it might actually be possible to prevent some of the many thousand flu deaths a year as well if we just changed our behaviours and the government was more active (and had the capability to do that). I mean SK has 3000 flu deaths last year; we had 16000.

For sure. It seems Asian countries have a slightly better handle on infectious diseases in part because they're exposed to more of them, so mask wearing, hand hygiene etc. are more second nature than they are here. It would be nice if as a result of this we did start taking vaccines more regularly, didn't force ourselves into work when we're unwell, were more considerate of others if we might be under the weather, and so on.

 

[Neiler]

Oxford leads first trial investigating dosing with alternating vaccines

The University of Oxford is to lead the first trial to explore alternating different COVID-19 vaccines, to explore the potential for flexibility in delivery and look for clues as to how to increase the breadth of protection against new virus strains.

www.ox.ac.uk

With regards to Hayward's comments, what is the alternative? For the vast majority who get the virus it isn't a major health concern, so once those for whom it does tend to be a major health concern are vaccinated, what else are we seriously suggesting here? Lockdown until no cases exist anywhere in the world? I was very much of the impression that this is going to be with us now, much as the flu is with us, and will therefore require annual vaccinations to protect the vulnerable. If that is the case then we have to learn, as a society, to function with this. I haven't heard anyone suggest it will be eradicated completely?

I think you set the scene mate, the narrative needs to be living with the virus as opposed to raising expectations and getting back to normal. In my opinion and that’s seems to be the predominant narrative.

I’ve worked through flu out breaks, were everyone has been vaccinated and they aren’t pretty, flu season may be replaced by COVID season.

I think being up front about that and ongoing precautions, is not setting unrealistic expectations, that may not be met. It strikes pretty much at the moment that everyone is just waiting for the vaccine and get back to normal, will they get a summer holiday etc. That’s were people’s expectations are and I think that is being reinforced by the political narrative in the U.K.

On the opposite end of the scale, we might have to risk adverse approach over here and that can work against you to, people will just ignore eventually when infections are low.

A take home for me politically trough all of this, is how much narratives are manipulated and construed in terms of risk for political agenda. I think people can take the truth if there told.

What would be the harm in saying now, “Your offf your rocker heading to Spain for two weeks and we wouldn’t recommend it” instead it’s all about “When we get back to
Normality”.

There was f course needs to be an unloosing if society, but that needs to be balanced by realistic aadvice on risk of living with this!

 

[davek]

The narrative reminded me of the spirit of eat and to help out, it’s counter productive because unlesss promises are kept you are accountable. I was really surprised especially at a CMO, maybe I’m to used to our CMO, he has a very risk averse approach.

Whitty is a safe pair of hands for this government. Establishment and never going to contradict his paymasters. Vallance is an unspeakable Big Pharma figure shoehorned into that job of his.

The likes of Hayward (and especially Carl Henaghan) are media savvy and malleable to a government message. People like Ferguson will be hounded for speaking out, so they all know the score on that.

We really are led by donkeys over here.