Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Tubey]

We know the az vaccine is 70% effective for 12 weeks.

We also know Pfizer one is 90% for 21 days. Now surely to god we can assume its not going to lose all its immunity within 12 weeks?

The British medical board have far more data than the public and have decided thats what we should do.

Good enough for me

What I think people need to know is that it's 70% effective at preventing infection. However - unless I've read it incorrectly - it's basically 100% effective at stopping serious illness even if you do catch it.

So, from what I can gather, it works in a similar way to how variolation used to work with smallpox - you can still technically catch the virus but its' effects would be mitigated dramatically.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32623-4/fulltext

But the data is so weirdly expressed that it's hard to be sure. If that is the case, it needs to be expressed 1000x more clearly, because people would be delighted if that was the case. If the vaccine 100% 'downgrades' COVID to what would then be just a fairly hard cold, then everyone would be on board.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Interesting article that raises some real concerns about our UK government change in guidelines as it goes pick n mix with vaccines.

Britain Opens Door to Mix-and-Match Vaccinations, Worrying Experts

If a second dose of one vaccine isn’t available, another may be substituted, according to the guidelines.

www.nytimes.com

‘Britain Opts for Mix-and-Match Vaccinations, Confounding Experts‘

‘If a second dose of one vaccine isn’t available, another may be substituted, according to new U.K. guidelines’

‘Amid a sputtering vaccine rollout and fears of a new and potentially more transmissible variant of the coronavirus, Britain has quietly updated its vaccination playbook to allow for a mix-and-match vaccine regimen’

‘Some scientists say Britain is gambling with its new guidance. “There are no data on this idea whatsoever,” said John Moore, a vaccine expert at Cornell University. Officials in Britain “seem to have abandoned science completely now and are just trying to guess their way out of a mess.”

‘It is far from certain that the vaccines are interchangeable, several researchers said’

 

[Tubey]

Interesting article that raises some real concerns about our UK government change in guidelines as it goes pick n mix with vaccines.

Britain Opens Door to Mix-and-Match Vaccinations, Worrying Experts

If a second dose of one vaccine isn’t available, another may be substituted, according to the guidelines.

www.nytimes.com

‘Britain Opts for Mix-and-Match Vaccinations, Confounding Experts‘

‘If a second dose of one vaccine isn’t available, another may be substituted, according to new U.K. guidelines’

‘Amid a sputtering vaccine rollout and fears of a new and potentially more transmissible variant of the coronavirus, Britain has quietly updated its vaccination playbook to allow for a mix-and-match vaccine regimen’

‘Some scientists say Britain is gambling with its new guidance. “There are no data on this idea whatsoever,” said John Moore, a vaccine expert at Cornell University. Officials in Britain “seem to have abandoned science completely now and are just trying to guess their way out of a mess.”

‘It is far from certain that the vaccines are interchangeable, several researchers said’

Bit of fake news in a way that, in terms of the headline.

This won't be routine practice.

For individuals who started the schedule and who attend for vaccination at a site where the same vaccine is not available, or if the first product received is unknown, it is reasonable to offer one dose of the locally available product to complete the schedule.

That's the two scenarios given, which is fair enough, especially in the latter scenario. It's basically an accommodation for when errors occur - this paragraph precedes the above and shows the standard method that will be used for 99.9% of people.

If the course is interrupted or delayed, it should be resumed using the same vaccine but the first dose should not be repeated. There is no evidence on the interchangeability of the COVID-19 vaccines although studies are underway. Therefore, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine the individual received and to complete with the same vaccine.

Poor from the NY Times to paraphrase the document really.

 

[Leylo]

Just read police stopping cars coming from tier 4 to liverpool shopping today, ha think the horse has bolted there bloody joke.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

This won't be routine practice.

Well considering we should have been back to normal early last month, and told enough vaccines to be in vaccinating millions of people a month now, the only routine practice is anything goes...

Its left people gobsmaked, serious and down to earth family and friends the sudden change in dosing, astonishing given the political and media pressure a month or so ago to give the anti vaxers a good kicking, this pivot this will be the anti vaxers greatest gift.

 

[Tubey]

Well considering we should have been back to normal early last month, and told enough vaccines to be in vaccinating millions of people a month now, the only routine practice is anything goes...

Its left people gobsmaked the sudden change in dosing, astonishing given the political and media pressure a month or so ago to give the anti vaxers a good kicking, this pivot this will be the anti vaxers greatest gift.

There isn't a change in dosing - it is simply an instruction as to what to do if an unforeseen situation arises.

The dosing remains the same as communicated.

 

[BlueToff]

The West has underlined what a basket case they are throughout the crisis. It's lack of behavioural discipline that has us here - our societies creaking under the weight of their own contradictions of rampant commercialism and individualism at a time when we need to handle a killer virus.

South East Asia there's been about 40,000 deaths
Japan 3,000
South Korea <1,000

The East has shown it's not all about vaccines - vaccines are needed because of terrible political organisation and the actions of civilian populations weaned on some remorseless path to a consumerist nirvana.

I keep repeating this but Asia followed the SARS model (from experience), Europe and the west followed the Flu model.

Aus and NZ followed SARS, but their contact tracing isn't as ultra strict as it is in Japan, SK etc - they have climate and population density (or lack of) on their side.

Not saying you're wrong, but just worth pointing out imo.

 

[BlueToff]

Also, from what I understand, they don't forecast any drop off in effectiveness in the vaccines if the booster is spaced out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I read today.

I mean, if that means more people can get vaccinated faster, then that's good, surely?

 

[BlueToff]

Well considering we should have been back to normal early last month, and told enough vaccines to be in vaccinating millions of people a month now, the only routine practice is anything goes...

Its left people gobsmaked, serious and down to earth family and friends the sudden change in dosing, astonishing given the political and media pressure a month or so ago to give the anti vaxers a good kicking, this pivot this will be the anti vaxers greatest gift.

Were we told that?

Genuine question. I don't remember been told that we'd have millions a month vaccinated by January 1st?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

There isn't a change in dosing - it is simply an instruction as to what to do if an unforeseen situation arises.

The dosing remains the same as communicated.

Its been another right royal feckin mess. From 21 days to 3 months, to pick n mix on the day of vaccine, know very well what my week is going to be like from Monday, first class idiots Government and their science advisors, they have absolute no idea, how incompetent and desperate they come across.

 

[Tubey]

Also, from what I understand, they don't forecast any drop off in effectiveness in the vaccines if the booster is spaced out. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but that's what I read today.

I mean, if that means more people can get vaccinated faster, then that's good, surely?

Pfizer has stated there's no data for the dosage being spaced out. MHRA in the UK have said it'll be fine.

It's a political decision over science, no other way of understanding it. Which, unfortunately, means the MHRA is subject to political influence and will, therefore, further reduce confidence in the vaccine.

As said earlier, I understand why they've done it; but I think it's a terrible decision borne out of panic.

 

[Haydn]

Were we told that?

Genuine question. I don't remember been told that we'd have millions a month vaccinated by January 1st?

In May 30 Million doses were to be available by September (2020)

Then in November it became 10 million by the end of the year.

Apparently we have loads of it, just not in vials ready to be injected.

FactCheck Q&A: how much coronavirus vaccine do we have?

All the evidence suggests the number of vaccine doses available for immediate use falls well short of the 40 million that we were originally supposed to have by this stage.

www.channel4.com

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[Deleted member 48881]

 

[sbbefc]

Yet business travelers from the UK are exempt from even quarantining. It beggars belief. No doubt thousands of them will be on their way to ski resorts for their business trips in the next few months. It's not as if video conference software exists....

These decisions are part of the problem. One rule for them and one rule for us. People just don't take this thing seriously anymore.