Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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We've been through this before. Sweden is out on a limb has a small population, not swamped by tourists or used as a transit hub. It simply cannot be used as a comparison. Each country needs it's own response tailored to what goes on within its borders.

People think that the government don't want to open up and they in some way take pleasure in this. But it's the complete opposite. This government has been too keen. They knew back in March that crowds would cause problems but their initial strategy of herd immunity depended on people getting it. You could have been sat at Goodison in March while someone 3/4 rows back sneezed and then the droplets slammed back in your face via the wind.

It was only when it bit them on the arse did they realise it wasn't something that could work or be continued with. Hence the full lockdown.

OK, here goes. Discussing coronavirus is a difficult subject. Asking questions about things that the government or some health experts claim are facts means that you are sometimes called a pariah, yet there are many questions or shall we say inconsistencies that need to be explained.

Example 1, the science behind the stadium bans which I asked questions about on the other forum. Is there really a science/risk based evidence argument for banning stadiums yet leaving airports open and flights a free-for-all? I'm very doubtful of that personally.

Example 2 might be the argument behind facemasks. The Chief Medical Officer told us they were a waste of time initially. Then they became mandatory. However, they're not mandatory in shops in Wales - just England. Does that mean mask wearing is just a political decision in England and not actually a medical decision? Again I don't understand the reasons for the differences I just know that they exist and again nobody asks about it.

Example 3 Deaths. What proportion of the population that died were vulnerable anyway to any disease? The reports I read in the paper suggests that an overwhelming majority of healthy individuals don't die from covid. I even saw an Oxford professor, Heneghan, say the same thing. if you're under 60 and have no health problems the virus isn't a threat to you. Even Trump who's what - a 70 year old man- seems to have recovered quickly, in what 3 days? Even if it isn't a full recovery - although how he made it up all them steps to the white house if he hasn't fully recovered I don't know - it's clear it's not as bad as supposed (which is what justifies all these restrictions).

So here's what I'm getting at: fear. This is where Sweden comes in. I'm not talking about it's lack of restrictions. What Sweden is doing (and has got right in my opinion) is that it is not scaring its people. People are still spending, people are going to work, going to church, people are enjoying their lives meeting friends and family and all the rest. Yet all of this seems in mortal jeopardy in this country and that is what I oppose most of all. All we get is more doom predictions of hospitals meltingdown, christmas being cancelled, deaths, schools closing, jobs lost, claims of selfish people not obeying rules. Why can't we just discuss Covid (as a country I mean - not here on this board) without trying to scare the living daylights out of people? Let's not resort to calling people dangerous for asking questions when in many cases the reasoning is flawed or the science isn't clear one way of the other. Let's not report our neighbours to the police because there were 7 people in someone's garden and not 6. That's why Sweden appeals to me. It is a beacon of hope over fear.
 
OK, here goes. Discussing coronavirus is a difficult subject. Asking questions about things that the government or some health experts claim are facts means that you are sometimes called a pariah, yet there are many questions or shall we say inconsistencies that need to be explained.

Example 1, the science behind the stadium bans which I asked questions about on the other forum. Is there really a science/risk based evidence argument for banning stadiums yet leaving airports open and flights a free-for-all? I'm very doubtful of that personally.

Example 2 might be the argument behind facemasks. The Chief Medical Officer told us they were a waste of time initially. Then they became mandatory. However, they're not mandatory in shops in Wales - just England. Does that mean mask wearing is just a political decision in England and not actually a medical decision? Again I don't understand the reasons for the differences I just know that they exist and again nobody asks about it.

Example 3 Deaths. What proportion of the population that died were vulnerable anyway to any disease? The reports I read in the paper suggests that an overwhelming majority of healthy individuals don't die from covid. I even saw an Oxford professor, Heneghan, say the same thing. if you're under 60 and have no health problems the virus isn't a threat to you. Even Trump who's what - a 70 year old man- seems to have recovered quickly, in what 3 days? Even if it isn't a full recovery - although how he made it up all them steps to the white house if he hasn't fully recovered I don't know - it's clear it's not as bad as supposed (which is what justifies all these restrictions).

So here's what I'm getting at: fear. This is where Sweden comes in. I'm not talking about it's lack of restrictions. What Sweden is doing (and has got right in my opinion) is that it is not scaring its people. People are still spending, people are going to work, going to church, people are enjoying their lives meeting friends and family and all the rest. Yet all of this seems in mortal jeopardy in this country and that is what I oppose most of all. All we get is more doom predictions of hospitals meltingdown, christmas being cancelled, deaths, schools closing, jobs lost, claims of selfish people not obeying rules. Why can't we just discuss Covid (as a country I mean - not here on this board) without trying to scare the living daylights out of people? Let's not resort to calling people dangerous for asking questions when in many cases the reasoning is flawed or the science isn't clear one way of the other. Let's not report our neighbours to the police because there were 7 people in someone's garden and not 6. That's why Sweden appeals to me. It is a beacon of hope over fear.
Re Sweden there was a good article I posted a few pages back where it says that they kept a lot of things open, but the things they did shut down (for example large gatherings, night clubs etc) they did very strictly.
 
Don’t see why we should just accept massive job loses and people losing their livelihoods.

It’s a reaction to a pandemic, yes, but the extent it’s happening in this country is very worrying.

The chancellor telling these people they should retrain for other jobs tells you the support arts and entertainment will receive from this government.

There has to be a better solution. Over time the future of a generation of people will have to take on more importance.

I guess firstly we'd have to know how we rank in terms of COVID job losses etc. compared to other countries, then we'd have to rank how we fair in terms of financial support that's been handed out between March and October etc.

I'm all for bashing the UK but I'd like some stats for the wider picture first before we profess what we do here is way worse than anywhere else.
 
Example 1, the science behind the stadium bans which I asked questions about on the other forum. Is there really a science/risk based evidence argument for banning stadiums yet leaving airports open and flights a free-for-all? I'm very doubtful of that personally.

Correct me if I'm wrong but don't you have to wear a mask at an airport and on a plane? If you eat or drink you have to be seated at a table and temporarily take it off but there should be a good distance around you.

Compare that to a football stadium where there are thousands in close quarters. Are you going to wear your mask and not shout? Most masks aren't medical grade so particles can pass in and out (just not as free as if you had no barrier). Even if you had medical masks I doubt they would expect them to work when you are screaming at the team, likely they would slip off or something get through. I doubt a doctor tries attending to patients on that way etc.

To that point there is a good video of blues singing the spirit of the blues in a pub, mostly social distancing but no masks. The amount of forceful siging is probably floating all the fine droplets all around that pub. It's a fun video but makes me cringe as it shows they do not understand how this is passed around. You may as well go around snogging each other with the amount of spittle in the air. It's like sharing a car with Carragher.

The amount of people heading towards the match would make it impossible to socially distance. The trains and buses would be rammed. The pubs will have no space and fans will be in close proximity drinking their pints or having pies/chips etc. Non match travelling fans would likely be caught up in this too.

Imho this is about making it work so businesses/schools can stay open. Start opening matches/gigs that is a sure fire way to spread the virus. Which will then mean closure of the other things that are trying to hobble along at the moment.

I'll get back about the other points later.
 
52,000 careless drivers imo
Not sure if has been posted but there are more careless drivers!

I’d expected road accident death rates to go down because of less miles driven/less congestion but apparently people are driving faster.
 
Not sure if has been posted but there are more careless drivers!

I’d expected road accident death rates to go down because of less miles driven/less congestion but apparently people are driving faster.

All those Tesla cars crashing themselves.
 
Example 2 might be the argument behind facemasks. The Chief Medical Officer told us they were a waste of time initially. Then they became mandatory. However, they're not mandatory in shops in Wales - just England. Does that mean mask wearing is just a political decision in England and not actually a medical decision? Again I don't understand the reasons for the differences I just know that they exist and again nobody asks about it.

This is how it can spread in the air:


It is now a legal requirement to wear masks in Wales. The reason why they didn't previously is because we are yokles that thought it can't happen to us given it wasn't too bad there earlier this year. This is also part of the reason why so many welsh counties are in lockdown.
 
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Example 3 Deaths. What proportion of the population that died were vulnerable anyway to any disease? The reports I read in the paper suggests that an overwhelming majority of healthy individuals don't die from covid. I even saw an Oxford professor, Heneghan, say the same thing. if you're under 60 and have no health problems the virus isn't a threat to you. Even Trump who's what - a 70 year old man- seems to have recovered quickly, in what 3 days? Even if it isn't a full recovery - although how he made it up all them steps to the white house if he hasn't fully recovered I don't know - it's clear it's not as bad as supposed (which is what justifies all these restrictions).

That is simply is not true. Granted it's relatively low risk and the younger you slide down the scale the less risk it becomes. Try telling that only over 60's need to worry to Kate Garraway, her husband was 53. As you get older (even in 30s/40s) things naturally start going wrong with your body.

There have been many reported cases of otherwise healthy people in hospital who are far younger than 60. We also don't know what happens if you get a double dose or flu at the same time? If everyone has it and you spend time with this person and then another and another who are all affected does the exposure change chances of getting a serious bout? You see a high percentage of deaths for medical professionals who are obviously around the virus for long periods. All these questions need to be answered first before you can go with a message of hope.
 
So all pubs and restaurants are to close in Scotland.

I never thought I’d see the day that I’d say well done to Sturgeon..
 
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