Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[davek]

I think a bit of both is achievable as we are at the moment mate. And yeah, borrowing is cheap, but that only effects the interest, or yield, that a Government pays. The capital needs paying back at some time.

With the banking sector, a huge amount of the spending was taking actual stakes in the banks, so the debt became an investment, kind of. This borrowing is literally dead money.

Christ, piss poor turn of phrase that, but you get the drift. Lobbing a few £000's at me aint gonna be repaid or realised.

The Bank of England can step in and buy government debt. It's already doing that.

 

[Deckard2049]

Well, we wont be hunting and gathering again will we? We are (so they kept telling us before Brexit) the 5th richest nation in the world.

Time to dig into those reserves and keep people safe. Alternatively you could just say "Ah bollox to it, Johnson's done such a bang on job so far, what could possibly go wrong if I get back into the high Street for hours on end"?

The thing is it doesn’t even matter whether we agree or disagree- the lockdown will continue to be eased. At most, local lockdowns will be put in place and how effectively they will be enforced will vary wildly.

The last few weeks have shown people are already fed up. Young people in particular will self assess the risk to themselves and find that for them just surviving is not the same as actually living your life (obviously a bit of a contradiction but I’m sure people get the sentiment). A selfish viewpoint perhaps but it is what it is.

For what it’s worth I agree with you that this “it’s safe to shop” message peddled by Johnson is so transparent it’s insulting and things have been horribly rushed. I just think the plan you envisage is not what will happen- I don’t think any government in any country would implement it. A lot of anti lockdown stories covering a variety of issues (missed cancer diagnoses, rise in domestic abuse, the impact of loneliness and depression, the impact on education and the economy, unemployment) are now appearing across all of the media (not just sources like the telegraph) which will also sway the public towards easing things up continually.

It’s up to each individual now to protect themselves, their family and do the best for their community.

 

[davek]

The thing is it doesn’t even matter whether we agree or disagree- the lockdown will continue to be eased. At most, local lockdowns will be put in place and how effectively they will be enforced will vary wildly.

The last few weeks have shown people are already fed up. Young people in particular will self assess the risk to themselves and find that for them just surviving is not the same as actually living your life (obviously a bit of a contradiction but I’m sure people get the sentiment). A selfish viewpoint perhaps but it is what it is.

For what it’s worth I agree with you that this “it’s safe to shop” message peddled by Johnson is so transparent it’s insulting and things have been horribly rushed. I just think the plan you envisage is not what will happen- I don’t think any government in any country would implement it. A lot of anti lockdown stories covering a variety of issues (missed cancer diagnoses, rise in domestic abuse, the impact of loneliness and depression, the impact on education and the economy, unemployment) are now appearing across all of the media (not just sources like the telegraph) which will also sway the public towards easing things up continually.

It’s up to each individual now to protect themselves, their family and do the best for their community.

Let's see what happens when daily deaths start heading toward a thousand again.

And as for the generational thing: all these people have mums and dads and grandparents. It's an abstraction to just say 'young people will self assess'. They cant just do that. Certainly not if / when that second wave occurs.

 

[YoboCopter]

That rave in manchester was good

rough now

 

[roydo]

The Bank of England can step in and buy government debt. It's already doing that.

Its a relatively recent activity that have seen them buy actual Government gilts. And even then, they only account for about 20% of it.

But you knew that.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Can’t speak for other businesses but going off what we were briefed about at our re-induction on Thursday, I’m shocked that I still had a job to go back to, the figures of losses they were telling us were depressingly grim.

That’s the reality people don’t seem to understand, the longer the lockdown the more likely that many businesses, small and large will continue to haemorrhage and go out of business leaving millions unemployed and without much career opportunities if there’s nothing to go back to

The government know they’ve screwed this up massively, whether they care or not is another matter, but it happened and it’s going to take a hell of a lot of time to recover from.

Easing restrictions to allow those that have been cut off from work on furlough to go back, and allow people to shop in more places, it can work but only if the public play it sensibly in the following ways

1) use the guidelines splashed around the shops and the hand sanitizer stations
2) if you see a particular shop has a queue, don’t join it unless there is something specific you need
3) if you do queue, don’t be a ballbag about the length of time queuing
4) if asked to adhere to distancing in store, don’t get in staff member’s faces about it, the measures are there to protect them as well
5) if you can, pay by card for transactions, all stores have extended limits on card spends, if you absolutely have to pay cash, try to have close to or the exact amount and place it on the counter

 

[davek]

Its a relatively recent activity that have seen them buy actual Government gilts. And even then, they only account for about 20% of it.

But you knew that.

Dont they kepe on telling us it's "unprecedented times"?

 

[davek]

ictions to allow those that have been cut off from work on furlough to go back, and allow people to shop in more places, it can work but only if the public play it sensibly in the following ways
1) use the guidelines splashed around the shops and the hand sanitizer stations
2) if you see a particular shop has a queue, don’t join it unless there is something specific you need
3) if you do queue, don’t be a ballbag about the length of time queuing
4) if asked to adhere to distancing in store, don’t get in staff member’s faces about it, the measures are there to protect them as well
5) if you can, pay by card for transactions, all stores have extended limits on card spends, if you absolutely have to pay cash, try to have close to or the exact amount and place it on the counter

Alternative list for starting the shopping:

1/ R-number down below 0.5
2/ Cases of infection in their hundreds rather than thousands
3/ Trace and track at promised "world class" level
4/ Mandate (as in many countries) all people to wear face masks in shops

Whatever happened to satisfying all that little lot in order to "cautiously" get to the "new normal"?


This is another calamity in the making. We all know it. I repeat:

STAY OUT OF THE SHOPS.

KEEP SAFE.

DONT BELIEVE A GOVERNMENT THAT PLAYS FAST AND LOOSE WITH 'SCIENTIFIC ADVICE'.

 

[roydo]

Dont they kepe on telling us it's "unprecedented times"?

They do. But debt is debt is debt.

Any central bank has limited capacity to endlessly buy their own Governments gilts.

IMO, what they should do with the Covid debt issues is once this all runs through, is to ring fence the lot, convert to 60 to 80 year duration, and effectively remove it from future year to year "debt", enabling future Governments to operate in a Covid neutral fiscal structure.

 

[PeregrineT]

This situation so far is costing (headline figures) £350B. The bailout of the financial sector in 2008-09 peaked at almost a trillion (£995B) according to the National Audit Office.

Borrowing is cheap. Very cheap.

Its funny reading your financial cluelessness in this thread, and how the world would devolve into complete destruction under your leadership(thankfully impossible). It really adds to your complete financial cluelessness about everything with Everton and the stadium.

I just have never seen someone who cared so little about anything having to do with finances and numbers, and who knew so little about it, want to talk so much about it. A bit bizarre that but highly entertaining.

 

[davek]

They do. But debt is debt is debt.

Any central bank has limited capacity to endlessly buy their own Governments gilts.

IMO, what they should do with the Covid debt issues is once this all runs through, is to ring fence the lot, convert to 60 to 80 year duration, and effectively remove it from future year to year "debt", enabling future Governments to operate in a Covid neutral fiscal structure.

We're not talking about endless buying. It's a pandemic. It isn't a nuclear winter lasting a decade.

 

[davek]

Its funny reading your financial cluelessness in this thread, and how the world would devolve into complete destruction under your leadership(thankfully impossible). It really adds to your complete financial cluelessness about everything with Everton and the stadium.

I just have never seen someone who cared so little about anything having to do with finances and numbers, and who knew so little about it, want to talk so much about it. A bit bizarre that but highly entertaining.

...I'm financially clueless, but you offer no alternative or critique, just your usual unit of snide BS.

 

[Toast]

Can’t speak for other businesses but going off what we were briefed about at our re-induction on Thursday, I’m shocked that I still had a job to go back to, the figures of losses they were telling us were depressingly grim.

That’s the reality people don’t seem to understand, the longer the lockdown the more likely that many businesses, small and large will continue to haemorrhage and go out of business leaving millions unemployed and without much career opportunities if there’s nothing to go back to

The government know they’ve screwed this up massively, whether they care or not is another matter, but it happened and it’s going to take a hell of a lot of time to recover from.

Easing restrictions to allow those that have been cut off from work on furlough to go back, and allow people to shop in more places, it can work but only if the public play it sensibly in the following ways

1) use the guidelines splashed around the shops and the hand sanitizer stations
2) if you see a particular shop has a queue, don’t join it unless there is something specific you need
3) if you do queue, don’t be a ballbag about the length of time queuing
4) if asked to adhere to distancing in store, don’t get in staff member’s faces about it, the measures are there to protect them as well
5) if you can, pay by card for transactions, all stores have extended limits on card spends, if you absolutely have to pay cash, try to have close to or the exact amount and place it on the counter

The abuse you will get for asking customers to shop as you want them to will come as a surprise.
They are sick of it, lockdown has been over for them for weeks.
What i would advise you is to have a plan for when it rains. Seriously.
Hope it goes well for you, but I can't see most shops being that busy immediately.

 

[BlueStevie35]

Alternative list for starting the shopping:

1/ R-number down below 0.5
2/ Cases of infection in their hundreds rather than thousands
3/ Trace and track at promised "world class" level
4/ Mandate (as in many countries) all people to wear face masks in shops

Whatever happened to satisfying all that little lot in order to "cautiously" get to the "new normal"?


This is another calamity in the making. We all know it. I repeat:

STAY OUT OF THE SHOPS.

KEEP SAFE.

DONT BELIEVE A GOVERNMENT THAT PLAYS FAST AND LOOSE WITH 'SCIENTIFIC ADVICE'.

1) That could be a very long time away from happening, it’s hard enough at present keeping individual regions from flip flopping between 0.8-1-1

2) while still in 4 figures at present, the infection cases are sliding daily

3) their biggest error not having this sooner, can’t trust them to actually run it effectively

4) I agree with you on this, I’ve found it a struggle to wear in work this week but I feel safer doing so

 

[roydo]

We're not talking about endless buying. It's a pandemic. It isn't a nuclear winter lasting a decade.

The Bank of England can step in and buy government debt. It's already doing that.

They cant. Not much more anyrate.

You clearly havnt much of a clue how Government borrowing works. They/we already issue £billions of gilts every month. Have done forever.

Its called sovereign debt, because it is gold plated in terms of risk of non payment of neither the yield nor an eventual redemption. Merica owes China $trillions.

In April, UK borrowed £40 Billion more than they did last April. No reason why May and June will be any improvement. That 3 months of perhaps £120 Billion borrowed basically to pay folk. Not a train station, or a hospital, literally, on nothing of substance.

Sure, the yield will be low, (thats the interest rate the international market will accept by the way), but the second that market raises a collective eyebrow that perhaps this purchase is at risk of default, (google any South American country for an example), chaos.

And the "usual" borrowing, like for hospitals and train stations kinda gets daft expensive, or dries up.

So yeah, lets keep the shops shut.