Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[AUXLEN]

Like stages of grief, there are stages of a pandemic.

I am currently at the “I hate people” stage

To be fair, if they announced a vaccine tomorrow I also would be hesitant. Not through any nutjob theory of political shenanigans but simply because of the timescale of development. Not saying I wouldn't take it but I'd certainly delay it until I saw how people responded to it.

 

[PSB1]

The government are not supposed to be a know nothing tedious whopper on the internet like me, they are supposed to be geo-political experts with the most up to date information that allows them to be briefed on situations that we are not, saying they should be held to different standards to a football forum is not unreasonable

You're right. In fairness though, the government would have to follow scientific guidance in an event such as this. If the eventual enquiry finds that they did follow clear guidance, it's the scientists who will hang, not the politicians.

 

[AUXLEN]

Ok.

It's like an episode of The Day Today.

 

[orchard]

The government are not supposed to be a know nothing tedious whopper on the internet like me, they are supposed to be geo-political experts with the most up to date information that allows them to be briefed on situations that we are not, saying they should be held to different standards to a football forum is not unreasonable

Besides, that's when people were genuinely giving the government the benefit of the doubt, the non-politicising period that some even call for now, hence the lack of comment in the main.

By the time it became apparent that our so-called government were doing next to nothing the steady stream of people and companies taking measures upon themselves because of a lack of confidence in Johnson's management became an avalanche.

 

[Barnfred 55]

In January, no one quite believed it could be bad, February, I was sick as a dog tbf, early March I called out considering herd immunity for the hair brained idea it was, and had criticised the Liverpool match going ahead. I've been critical of the lack of testing, the failure to obtain PPE. This was before lockdown, not in hindsight, and GOT isn't the only place to post about Corona.

By March we were all having a pop at them. Hard not to really given some of their decisions. But the reason I'm singling out January and February is that they were your words, the government should have had it all sorted January and February

Sadly we can't undo what's been done, but at least we are in a much better place to deal with a second wave, which was the original point I was making. I think we'll need to be. This TTI app will be crucial in that but I'm not sure enough people will sign up to it

 

[Barnfred 55]

It is bizarre that so many on this forum cannot comprehend that people may not want to, be able to or be bothered to post things that they may be associated with in their daily lives.

Almost anyone working in health or EPRR in January was worried and making preparations. They were communicating with Government and through national NHSE channels about the challenges and gaps; about the lack of equipment; about the lack of capacity; about procurement and supply chain. Most of it fell on deaf ears.

I do not doubt these concerns were raised. But what I find bizarre is given the volume of anti government stuff posted in here that nobody bothered to post anything about this if it were such an issue. Plenty of people on here are health workers or have close relatives who are.

I would also question what happened to those concerns. Did they even reach cabinet level or were they lost somewhere.within departmental bureaucracy? Something we'll have to wait for the inquest to confirm Ii
Imagine

 

[Barnfred 55]

Pretty sure a lot were saying that testing was poor throughout Feb and as soon as the China WHO report came out (late Feb) it was clear that hospitals and care homes needed to be very vigilant about making sure the virus did not get in.

From memory the testing arguments kicked off in March, or possibly at the end of February. Up until then there weren't many cases. Some (me included) were querying why we weren't testing people flying in from China and Italy.

It was only much later that we discovered that PHE was trying to keep the testing in house. An astonishing decision given the quality of our University's and pharmaceutical companies.

 

[Harryflashman]

By March we were all having a pop at them. Hard not to really given some of their decisions. But the reason I'm singling out January and February is that they were your words, the government should have had it all sorted January and February

Sadly we can't undo what's been done, but at least we are in a much better place to deal with a second wave, which was the original point I was making. I think we'll need to be. This TTI app will be crucial in that but I'm not sure enough people will sign up to it

Just to reiterate a point I’ve made a couple of times before . In Late January early February the chairman of the US Senate intelligence committee went to a briefing on Covid and subsequently sold millions of dollars worth of his stocks in hotels and hospitality . It’s alleged that Burr Told a well connected group that what was coming was “akin to the the 1918 pandemic “. Another senator loeffler also got a briefing and dumped a load of similar shares . If these well placed US politicians knew what was coming then our government most certainly did .

I absolutely underestimated what our country faced , I thought we faced an issue but frankly I underestimated it and I did so in a massive fashion . There are probably a host of reasons I responded in such a way but I absolutely did not see this coming . However I wasn’t sitting in briefing or reading the kind of reports that saw the above dump stocks and shares .

Ive listened to or watched pretty much every briefing and despite the answers becoming more political I felt a degree of sympathy for the scientists as it seems obvious what’s coming for them and if it wasn’t then the PM’s clinician answer the other day painted it
in 12 foot letters . However as the scientists seem to try and be the governments shield and defend every decision then frankly it’s hard to look beyond thinking they’ll half deserve what’s inevitably coming .

Credit where it’s due I think the treasury has done well , I think the measures have overall been as good if not better than expected and I think it’s be churlish not to recognise that . Business have gone to the wall and more certainly will do but some will certainly survive due to the actions of the government.

 

[Hickson9]

Just to reiterate a point I’ve made a couple of times before . In Late January early February the chairman of the US Senate intelligence committee went to a briefing on Covid and subsequently sold millions of dollars worth of his stocks in hotels and hospitality . It’s alleged that Burr Told a well connected group that what was coming was “akin to the the 1918 pandemic “. Another senator loeffler also got a briefing and dumped a load of similar shares . If these well placed US politicians knew what was coming then our government most certainly did .

I absolutely underestimated what our country faced , I thought we faced an issue but frankly I underestimated it and I did so in a massive fashion . There are probably a host of reasons I responded in such a way but I absolutely did not see this coming . However I wasn’t sitting in briefing or reading the kind of reports that saw the above dump stocks and shares .

Ive listened to or watched pretty much every briefing and despite the answers becoming more political I felt a degree of sympathy for the scientists as it seems obvious what’s coming for them and if it wasn’t then the PM’s clinician answer the other day painted it
in 12 foot letters . However as the scientists seem to try and be the governments shield and defend every decision then frankly it’s hard to look beyond thinking they’ll half deserve what’s inevitably coming .

Credit where it’s due I think the treasury has done well , I think the measures have overall been as good if not better than expected and I think it’s be churlish not to recognise that . Business have gone to the wall and more certainly will do but some will certainly survive due to the actions of the government.

The response of HMT, Sunak and Barclay so far definitely has to be commended. They intervened quickly across the board, and filled in a fair few gaps as they became apparent.

Sunak's reputation in particular has been enhanced.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Ive openly admitted I got this wrong at the start.

You weren't alone Goat and most people felt the same and got it wrong

All I'm doing is showing how hard kit was to make the right calls back at the start of this. That post of yours was probably from about mid Feb was it?

 

[ramacca]

Imagine standing in election winning it and be expected to manage the country, it's totally unreasonable. We should know our place..

Imagine clapping the NHS, while the day before you bashed that same NHS and pushed clinicians under the bus.

"No-one was discharged into a care home this year without the express authorisation of a clinician", PMQs 20/05/2020

 

[Jebus_lives]

I do not doubt these concerns were raised. But what I find bizarre is given the volume of anti government stuff posted in here that nobody bothered to post anything about this if it were such an issue. Plenty of people on here are health workers or have close relatives who are.

I would also question what happened to those concerns. Did they even reach cabinet level or were they lost somewhere.within departmental bureaucracy? Something we'll have to wait for the inquest to confirm Ii
Imagine

There is a delay in when those things become apparent. If concerns are raised in Jan/Feb and the answers follow:

'Capacity will be there'
'yes we'll note the issue and address it'
'Government is working on that'
'don't do this locally national arrangements are in place'

The time you become aware of it is when you need the equipment or need to rely on a process you expected to be in place and it's not.

@peteblue, for example, was suggesting that if people knew this and had worries they should just make local arrangements; which is ludicrous as there needs to be national oversight of distribution, there is not the local resource to simply procure millions of peices of equipment, the DfH put blocks on procurement of equipment they deemed excessive (effectively anything outside usual orders) and local planning arrangements were done in isolation from national planning arrangements and strategies - largely it seems because 'protect life' which should be the top priority was shunted as the national strategy in favour of 'protect the economy and take it on the chin'.

As I said, there will be numerous reasons why people don't post stuff in these forums especially where you may not want to alarm people; but what would you expect someone to post in January if they are assured arrangements are in place?

 

[Jebus_lives]

By March we were all having a pop at them. Hard not to really given some of their decisions. But the reason I'm singling out January and February is that they were your words, the government should have had it all sorted January and February

Sadly we can't undo what's been done, but at least we are in a much better place to deal with a second wave, which was the original point I was making. I think we'll need to be. This TTI app will be crucial in that but I'm not sure enough people will sign up to it

They should have. They were told enough times what was needed.

 

[peteblue]

What 'experts'? How do you do that Pete, and how do you make them listen? I can only do things to help people on a local level, and it's not a conspiracy that the reporting of this pandemic has been very favourable towards the government. Doctors and scientists have been ignored time and time again (note the government staff went against the advice of almost every reputable scientist here and abroad), nevermind the pandemic walkthrough a few years back which exposed the inadequacy of the country to deal with something like this.

How has the reporting of this pandemic been ‘favourable’ towards the government ? What is the U.K. doing that is different to Spain, France, Italy, or that goes against the advice of every ‘reputable‘ scientist. I can accept that the country was certainly not prepared for this, but that blame I would lay at the feet of May’s government, the Civil Service, PHE and the NHS......

 

[davek]

It was reading through the exchange, and you diving in midway through with this intervention that prompted me to comment.

My commentary was to provide clarification and the scientific advice. To be blunt, telling someone they are correct in an approach that provides absolutely no benefit in preventing the spread of infection is helpful to no-one.

Telling someone they're right to be cautious in a pandemic is helpful to no one. Thanks for your 'scientific' input.