Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Crises can only be met and seen off by a large state response determined to throw everything at it and for a prolonged period.

This thing cant be managed by medical quangos hired not to rock the boat against politicians looking to avoid the use of resources on a gigantic level. This cant be solved by market forces and business as usual.

GTF out of government Johnson, you're a menace to the people of Britian.
 
Many of us thought he would be pummelled in the last election and look how that turned out. He could commit mass genocide and idiots in their millions will still support him and blame Corbyn or something.

Thats fair, but I never really felt that. He won by more than I was expecting, but I fancied him to win. He negotiated a deal. That was the key. It signified to his base of voters (Brexit voters) he would be able to deliver on what they wanted.

He looks completely different on this issue. He has gambled the house on this not being a serious issue. It is growing all the time, and if bodies start piling up it will be very hard for him, especially as people see him as a bit of a joker.

To me he's taken an enormous and unnecessary risk.

The truth is though, this crisis is far more severe than people realise. Not just medically but what it means more broadly. The economy has been run into the ground by the government and this is triggering a collapse. Most people, businesses and institutions simply cannot survive a month without working, Statutory sick pay is too low for people to survive etc.

To properly deal with this virus, it would need an investment package, and a move from lazes fair market economics to such a degree they would not be capable or willing to do. Some of it would have to be done via borrowing, but it would require enormous redistributive policies to ensure we can survive, from taking large amounts of wealth from the wealthiest. When you factor in the double whammy of Brexit, they just do not have the determination to do that, so they are handcuffed.
 
Crises can only be met and seen off by a large state response determined to throw everything at it and for a prolonged period.

This thing cant be managed by medical quangos hired not to rock the boat against politicians looking to avoid the use of resources on a gigantic level. This cant be solved by market forces and business as usual.

GTF out of government Johnson, you're a menace to the people of Britian.

See my post above mate. For all his faults, Churchill grasped the nettle of WW2 and started an infrastructure project that would be picked up by Atlee to deliver the biggest transformation of wealth seen in this country in centuries (and the largest boom in capitalism in it's history).

That's what is required here. We need mass payments made to people who have to insulate. We need loans to businesses (particularly small businesses) to cope, requisitioning of private sector beds for the NHS, massive increases in spending in the NHS, a mass roll out of testing, investment in child care facilities, and huge pay rises to the minimum wage to obliterate child poverty.

That's before you get to the hundreds of billions required to stabilise the markets (as American have just done).

A decisive leader would have grasped that. See Roosevelt in America or Churchill here. As Roosevelt said, he wasn't a socialist but the saviour of American capitalism.

The sort of funding that is required can be done in part by borrowing, but would also require heavily redistributive taxes. The wealthy have grown so rich as to be unsustainable. It is time for them to pay some of the money they have been allocated back for the wider good.

They have no intentions of doing that though. It reminds me a little of the Roman Empire, Nero fiddling, with diseases and economic collapse intertwining to lead to an organic crisis the rulers have no idea what it means, never mind how to fix it.
 
See my post above mate. For all his faults, Churchill grasped the nettle of WW2 and started an infrastructure project that would be picked up by Atlee to deliver the biggest transformation of wealth seen in this country in centuries (and the largest boom in capitalism in it's history).

That's what is required here. We need mass payments made to people who have to insulate. We need loans to businesses (particularly small businesses) to cope, requisitioning of private sector beds for the NHS, massive increases in spending in the NHS, a mass roll out of testing, investment in child care facilities, and huge pay rises to the minimum wage to obliterate child poverty.

That's before you get to the hundreds of billions required to stabilise the markets (as American have just done).

A decisive leader would have grasped that. See Roosevelt in America or Churchill here. As Roosevelt said, he wasn't a socialist but the saviour of American capitalism.

The sort of funding that is required can be done in part by borrowing, but would also require heavily redistributive taxes. The wealthy have grown so rich as to be unsustainable. It is time for them to pay some of the money they have been allocated back for the wider good.

They have no intentions of doing that though. It reminds me a little of the Roman Empire, Nero fiddling, with diseases and economic collapse intertwining to lead to an organic crisis the rulers have no idea what it means, never mind how to fix it.

Did you miss the budget then, where it was stated that whatever needed to be spent would be spent. Even Corbyn had nothing to complain about....
 
No ones house is on fire though. Meanwhile washing hands actually helps to delay the spread of the virus. Everyone could sit in their own homes for 3 months, the economy collapses, then afterwards a visitor from China, Spain, Argentina or wherever arrives with the same bug and everyone catches it again, or we all go back home for 3 months.....
Community centres in Italy being used as temporary morgues........
 
1. Where did the EU get all of that money? :eek: 2. Why would the member states need "green-lighting"? lol

1. From the UK divorce settlement.

1amj.gif


Welsh ruby game cancelled now after being given the go ahead.....

I'm pretty happy about this as it has saved me losing £90, I wasn't going to go. It would have actually been funny if only a couple of thousand had turned up.
 
Crises can only be met and seen off by a large state response determined to throw everything at it and for a prolonged period.

This thing cant be managed by medical quangos hired not to rock the boat against politicians looking to avoid the use of resources on a gigantic level. This cant be solved by market forces and business as usual.

GTF out of government Johnson, you're a menace to the people of Britian.

time for a government of national unity?
 
I wonder now how long it will take to elect a new Labour leader if hustings are cancelled etc ....

good point actually, they might be able to come up with alternative arrangements i guess seeing its a party and not a government they can amend their rules i would have thought
 
This lot haven't go a 'kin clue what they're doing.

#BorisOut
Dave who ever is in no 10 there is no magic wand ... just common sense might help ... with our NHS we have a chance of a complete disaster... fingers crossed hey lets not make it to polictical mistakes have been made lets learn from them ....
 
Did you miss the budget then, where it was stated that whatever needed to be spent would be spent. Even Corbyn had nothing to complain about....

I saw the budget and in general I think it was a sensible budget. Clearly Cummings faction is winning out against the neoliberal faction of the Tories and there will be a substantial move to borrow and spend. It's a form of Keynesianism, and given how low interest rates are, it's hard to say it's not a sensible approach even pragmatically.

I think it has proven what John Mcdonnell has said to be correct really. People mocked Corbyn when he said he won the argument, but that budget confirms it really. Pre 2017 the Conservatives fought on a platform that there was "no magic money tree" and came out the other side by borrowing more money than any administration has in decades (including New Labour).

I always remember Margaret Thatcher saying her biggest achievement was New Labour. You can obviously read that in the ay that Blair et al were essentially Thatcherites (which is quite a fair reading in my view). But more than that, that it's a positive if you force your opponents to adopt your clothes to win. In the longer term this is a very positive move. 97 was a high water point for Labour and they have been on the down slope ever since.

The point I'd make though, is that the measures announced in the budget hardly touch the sides of whats required for Corona Virus. I mean the measures will be a sticking plaster against very serious issues that have emerged after 10 years of a floored aspiration of chasing closing the budget deficit. The debt is now substantially higher than ever, and we've achieved nothing in doing so, is metaphorically drinking from the unending cup. The level of investment required for this crisis goes qualitatively beyond the relatively moderate measures put in place in the budget.

That is what is going to terrify the Conservatives at this point. They've managed the spectacle very badly, and re-enforced a perception of Johnson as a bit of a joker who's not really up to the job. I don't think they have the strength to replicate the sort of measures say Roosevelt managed in the 30's in America. Getting that past the neb-liberals in the coalition will prove much too difficult.

I think there will be deep divides within the organisation. From brief conversations I've had with some Conservatives, I have been surprised at the complacency they have shown. Their are choppy waters ahead. In truth I have really underestimated just how choppy those waters are, and how ineffective they look to be at crossing them.
 
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