CONFIRMED: Moyes Leaving - All Reaction Here

[Brennan]

Not having that. Even people in wigan don't talk about wigan let alone people in london.

Fair point like.

It's a dumbed down explanation tbh but it makes sense when you think about it. Everything we do has an effect on our lives down the line, even if it seems tiny.

 

[Goat]

What the hell is going on in this thread.

 

[hktoffee]

Must have done his part? The actual game suggests otherwise.

Looking back on his time here you make it sound like you're summarising by looking at league finishes on a piece of paper, without looking at any of the detail. Then saying he must have done well because we have finished ok in the league.

Even just looking back a year, I’m thinking of the disappointment of the bizarre team selection and performance in the anfield derby, slow walking back to the train listening to all the rs give it loads, after we threw away a massive chance to get to the Final at Wembley and then last Saturday throwing away a massive opportunity by seemingly not even trying.

Seriously you just take eveything for granted. We ain't freaking Real Madrid. We may not even beat a League 1 side let alone Wigan. This is football. (P.S I was furious too because Moyes started Neville but the team should have done better on the day).

Of course the league is the most important thing. If not, what else? Euro? We need to get 5th or 6th at least in the Premier League to get into the Europa League.

People are moaning because Moyes hasn't won us a cup since he took over. In reality I think he has done more than enough given Kenwright is the chairman. Everton, as a club have become a club that finishes 6th/7th in the league consistantly in the last 10 years rather than fighting relegation battle with Wigan.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Fair point like.

It's a dumbed down explanation tbh but it makes sense when you think about it. Everything we do has an effect on our lives down the line, even if it seems tiny.

I’m not convinced that in a draw containing City, Utd and Chelsea that the difference between Everton and Wigan would have been all that great. Especially considering when the draw actually took place, and given that our game was the furthest away in time/memory, at that point.

We can’t go back to see what would have happened if Everton had have beaten Wigan (unless you know something I don’t) but we do know that the winner of our tie will play Millwall in the next round.

Regardless even without looking at the semi final draw, my point still stands, people use luck as a reason for Swansea/Cardiff/Brum etc. getting to finals etc. and this was the easiest FA Cup draw in recent memory and we blew it.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

What the hell is going on in this thread.

To summarise; ball temperatures, expectation levels & Phil Neville.

 

[Brennan]

What the hell is going on in this thread.

£1.5m a year net spend. That's what.

 

[Dell Boy]

Oh look, another pointless post.

Okay so we all know about the butterfly effect: How, in a system as complex as the historical process, small changes in one place can result in large and unpredictable changes in other parts of the system further down the line. And that it can be a useful way of summarising the small changes that ripple out from a divergence, and should be used as an excuse for including various scenarios in the timeline.

I think this is complete crap. When someone creates a fictional world to serve as an element in a story, he is constrained by the other elements of the story, and, unless restraining himself, free to modify the course of history to fit with those elements. He can use any number of divergences, and set their outcomes to whatever works best for the story. If a few unlikely accidents and coincidences are needed to create cows landing on Mars, or whatever, so be it.

Trying to use the butterfly effect in an argument is completely pointless.

Firstly, realism. We have no way of knowing what a real alternate history would look like, and the task is too complex for any realistic simulation, even if we had enough data. Consider the weather. If a butterfly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane, then what impact would the differing movements of hundreds or thousands of people have? Consider the vast number of people born each year, with various talents and abilities that are highly dependent on the circumstances of their conception. Given how altering the destiny of one or two men can change the course of history, how can you hope to alter that of thousands without making the world quickly and unpredictably unrecognisable?

The answer is that you don't. Looking at alternative histories is a fundamentally fantastical exercise. Its goal is to either amuse or instruct. With the first, you can do more or less what you want, provided you create the intended effect. With the second, you need to restrict yourself to working out the logical implications of the divergence, with a certain fudge factor to account for your own areas of ignorance, while making the assumption that all else is equal.

Which brings us on to possibility. Using the butterfly effect as a means of expanding the range of possible outcomes is equivalent to saying anything can happen. Absolutely anything. It means that you have abandoned the constraints of causality, and so cannot say anything about the underlying mechanisms of history.

Ball 1 was always going to be Wigan or Everton. It was pulled out alongside Ball 4. They are the only two facts that are necessary here.

 

[Goat]

To summarise; ball temperatures, expectation levels & Phil Neville.

I dont understand tho.

We lost against Wigan cos somebody stepped differently?

 

[Little Ralphy]

Seriously you just take eveything for granted. We ain't freaking Real Madrid. We may not even beat a League 1 side let alone Wigan. This is football.

Of course the league is the most important thing. If not, what else? Euro? We need to get 5th or 6th at least in the Premier League to get into Europa League.

People are moaning because Moyes hasn't won us a cup since he took over. In reality I think he has done more than enough given Kenwright is the chairman because Everton, as a club have become a club that finishes 6th/7th in the league consistantly in the last 10 years rather than fighting relegation battle with Wigan.

Let’s just agree to disagree. I want my football club to win trophies, especially when an excellent opportunity presents itself, and not to roll over and give up in big games, you want 6/7th place stability. We want different things, let’s just leave it at that.

 

[Goat]

£1.5m a year net spend. That's what.

5.6m?

 

[Brennan]

Okay so we all know about the butterfly effect: How, in a system as complex as the historical process, small changes in one place can result in large and unpredictable changes in other parts of the system further down the line. And that it can be a useful way of summarising the small changes that ripple out from a divergence, and should be used as an excuse for including various scenarios in the timeline.

I think this is complete crap. When someone creates a fictional world to serve as an element in a story, he is constrained by the other elements of the story, and, unless restraining himself, free to modify the course of history to fit with those elements. He can use any number of divergences, and set their outcomes to whatever works best for the story. If a few unlikely accidents and coincidences are needed to create cows landing on Mars, or whatever, so be it.

Trying to use the butterfly effect in an argument can be completely pointless.

Firstly, realism. We have no way of knowing what a real alternate history would look like, and the task is too complex for any realistic simulation, even if we had enough data. Consider the weather. If a butterfly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane, then what impact would the differing movements of hundreds or thousands of people have? Consider the vast number of people born each year, with various talents and abilities that are highly dependent on the circumstances of their conception. Given how altering the destiny of one or two men can change the course of history, how can you hope to alter that of thousands without making the world quickly and unpredictably unrecognisable?

The answer is that you don't. Looking at alternative histories is a fundamentally fantastical exercise. Its goal is to either amuse or instruct. With the first, you can do more or less what you want, provided you create the intended effect. With the second, you need to restrict yourself to working out the logical implications of the divergence, with a certain fudge factor to account for your own areas of ignorance, while making the assumption that all else is equal.

Which brings us on to possibility. Using the butterfly effect as a means of expanding the range of possible outcomes is equivalent to saying anything can happen. Absolutely anything. It means that you have abandoned the constraints of causality, and so cannot say anything about the underlying mechanisms of history.

Ball 1 was always going to be Wigan or Everton. It was pulled out alongside Ball 4. They are the only two facts that are necessary here.

And ball 1 being put alongside ball 4 depended on the actions of people doing the draw, which easily could have been different based on the result of our match.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Ball 1 was always going to be Wigan or Everton. It was pulled out alongside Ball 4. They are the only two facts that are necessary here.

If Neville hadn't have played the only defence splitting ball he's played this millenium, then Ball 1 could well have been Everton, but to assume in that alternative reality, it would have been pulled out with Ball 4, is merely assumption. Not that it matters like......

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I dont understand tho.

We lost against Wigan cos somebody stepped differently?

No, no, we've now moved on to arguing over whether we'd have been playing Millwall in the Semi's, as we could have drawn City or United., dependant on numerous variables.

God bless the internet.

 

[Brennan]

I dont understand tho.

We lost against Wigan cos somebody stepped differently?

Goat it's like if all those years ago you'd decided to maintain a healthy diet instead of eating seven burgers a day, you would have been saved from a life time of internet insults and 'banter' about your massive waist, and your whole experience on this site would have been different.

One seemingly meaningless decision can have an effect on every aspect of your life which follows.

 

[hktoffee]

Let’s just agree to disagree. I want my football club to win trophies, especially when an excellent opportunity presents itself, and not to roll over and give up in big games, you want 6/7th place stability. We want different things, let’s just leave it at that.

I want trophies too but then again it is not in our control right? You're right we shall leave it here.