Current Affairs Climate Change

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Barry, you have been destroyed multiple times over. That you won’t acknowledge actual evidence in the ice cores indicating warming is occurring 10 times faster in the industrial age than post ice age recovery warming, evidence in coral reefs, tree rings, ocean sediments, sedimentary rocks and whole range of studies. Cherry picking articles from Fossil fuel backed think tanks, your whole argument is about CO2 ‘projections’ being overstated and therefore it’s a huge tin foil hat conspiracy.

Hoist that up your Petard.
The most recent analysis of the gargantuan problems with climate models was cited @verreauxi hardly Mr Fossil Fuel advocate :coffee: .

Not one of your proxy examples definitively identify man made co2 as causation but "facts" are incidental to "faith" and if believing in man made climate doom without robust science somehow makes you feel better then go for it. In the meantime you may have noticed the recent Madrid climate conference was deemed a failure because actions demanded by activists did not become policy - why? Because in the real world politicians know costs and implications would be enormous and the public would rebel as they did in France over exorbitant fuel taxes. Politicians may pay lip service to flavour of the month extremism but they know the vast majority have no truck with the lunacy and the idea of their political suicide trying to prove otherwise focuses their vote grabbing minds

When a mentally afflicted schoolgirl becomes unofficial spokesperson for the cult ranting and railing at people who provided the very basis of her freedom and life there really is no way back.

Keep the faith, macca
 
The most recent analysis of the gargantuan problems with climate models was cited @verreauxi hardly Mr Fossil Fuel advocate :coffee: .

Not one of your proxy examples definitively identify man made co2 as causation but "facts" are incidental to "faith" and if believing in man made climate doom without robust science somehow makes you feel better then go for it. In the meantime you may have noticed the recent Madrid climate conference was deemed a failure because actions demanded by activists did not become policy - why? Because in the real world politicians know costs and implications would be enormous and the public would rebel as they did in France over exorbitant fuel taxes. Politicians may pay lip service to flavour of the month extremism but they know the vast majority have no truck with the lunacy and the idea of their political suicide trying to prove otherwise focuses their vote grabbing minds

When a mentally afflicted schoolgirl becomes unofficial spokesperson for the cult ranting and railing at people who provided the very basis of her freedom and life there really is no way back.

Keep the faith, macca
What’s that got to do with anything. I’d be careful how you tread here
 
OMG...too easy. You really aren't good at this.

It seems Rathbone is still content to quote from wattsupwiththat.com, a pseudo-science climate-denial blog run by a TV weather man. The graph and editorial posted in response to WAToffee is by Tim Ball. Tim Ball is a lying hack and not a climate scientist. Simple as that. Here's what we know about Tim Ball:

Timothy Ball, a less well-known denier, is a former professor at the University of Winnipeg. Over the last decade he has given over 600 public talks on science and the environment, at the breakneck pace of over one talk every six days. Between 2002 and 2007 he wrote thirty-nine opinion pieces and thirty-two letters to the editor in twenty-four Canadian newspapers, a rate of one a month. Despite this rapid pace, he found time to write for the denier website Tech Central Station, and to appear in both the denier documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle and in a Fox News special, Exposed: The Climate of Fear, hosted by Glenn Beck. Ball was associated with Friends of Science, a great-sounding name but in practice funded by oil and gas companies. Ball then left Friends of Science in order to establish the (even greater sounding) Natural Resources Stewardship Project. Two of its three directors were PR flacks for energy industry clients.
In 2006, Ball rashly initiated a battle that ended in defeat. In an opinion piece published in the Calgary Herald newspaper, he claimed both that he held Canada’s first Ph.D. in climatology, and that he was a professor of the subject at the University of Winnipeg for twenty-eight years. Ball also disparaged another Canadian professor, Dan Johnson, Professor of Environmental Science at the University of Lethbridge. Johnson wrote a letter to the Herald accusing Ball of inflating his (Ball’s) resume, and claiming that Ball “did not show any evidence of research regarding climate and atmosphere.” Ball sued everybody in sight.
In the ensuring legal battle, Ball confessed to inflating his resume, admitted that he had been a professor for only eight years (not twenty-eight), and acknowledged that his doctoral degree was in geography, not climatology. The Herald newspaper expressed confidence in Johnson’s letter, and wrote “The plaintiff (Ball) is viewed as a paid promoter of the agenda of the oil and gas industry rather than as a practicing scientist.” In June 2007, the time came to show up in court; with his reputation in ruins, Ball dropped his lawsuit. (http://monthlyreview.org/2012/05/01/petroleum-and-propaganda)



As to the misquote that Rathbone posted, this is text-book pseudo-science. While Rathbone claims to use logic in his arguments, he still can't be bothered to even post a correctly worded quote out of context as a form of quote mining. Instead, he has laughably doubled-down by quoting from the paper I posted, in which the opening quote talks about uncertainty in modeling. In Rathbone's simple-minded analyses, he equates uncertainty with wrongness (such logic would make nautical travel or baking a cake impossible, as apparently we can't rely on future expectations in the face of uncertainty...LOL), and again tries to quote-mine a climate scientists to make his case. This is quite funny and reminiscent of creationists who quote-mine an evolutionary biologist who talks about uncertainty/gaps in our understanding of evolution as a means to say that all evolution is wrong. Typical simple-minded stuff.

Rathbone simply doesn't understand what modeling is. But this isn't surprising as he truly thinks that NASA was able to land humans on the moon because they sent animals up into space prior to humans, and this was what allowed them to develop models. Sadly, I'm not making this up! The quote is here:

"The moon landings were based on computer models devised by empirical observation - animals sent into space - climate models have no such grasp of the variables hence their failures but thanks for directing the reader to their inherent problems." --Barry Rathbone.

So, apparently we have an admission that models are useful ("...based on computer models..."), and then we have some typical garbled nonsense about "grasp of variables" which again betrays that Rathbone hasn't the faintest conceptualization of what scientific models are. This is also evident from his discussion of null hypothesis significance testing, which is rarely used in stochastic modeling--there are many ways to model uncertainty and determine the robustness of a model (this was, in fact, the point of the Dave Frame's paper that I posted above, which Rathbone tried to simplistically quote-mine--again!), and most don't rely on an alpha = 0.05 significance level.

The fact that Rathbone is content to quote from an anti-vax site (without attribution, of course) to support his laughable agenda is pretty much all you need to know.
 
he equates uncertainty with wrongness .....

Rathbone simply doesn't understand what modeling is. But this isn't surprising as he truly thinks that NASA was able to land humans on the moon because they sent animals up into space prior to humans, and this was what allowed them to develop models. Sadly, I'm not making this up! The quote is here:

"The moon landings were based on computer models devised by empirical observation - animals sent into space - climate models have no such grasp of the variables hence their failures but thanks for directing the reader to their inherent problems." --Barry Rathbone.
Why "announce" just talk to me one to one, playing to the gallery, ffs

Once again your conclusions are based on emotive ranting rather than clear thought.

It is the degree of "uncertainty" that is important it dictates what action (if any) should be taken and constructing global policy on models that are, let's be charitable - debatable - is lunacy. Only one, the Russian model, got the periods of fast warming in 1920–1940 and 1980–2000 as well as its slowdown in 1950–1975 and 2000–2014 correct maybe they got lucky :coffee:

The moon landing example that you didn't understand illustrated how you need to nail uncertainties before you take important action and sending humans up into space is just that hence they turned to the scientific method of using observations via repeatable experiment. No such equivalent reduction in uncertainty exists in climate modelling as no such repeatable experiment about anything pertaining to man made climate doom exists.

The massive uncertainties involved in climate models explain why the web is festooned with lists of associated failed climate catastrophe claims and why the credo cuts no ice (see what I did?) with the general public.

It really is "fantasy"
76381
 
Amazing that Shell Oil and other petroleum companies have moved from funding pseudo-science in the name of climate change denial to now accepting it and pretending they care about it. Even Shell Oil apparently now acknowledges that CO2 influences climate change. Once petroleum companies stop funding spurious psuedo-science, I wonder where folks like Barry Rathbone will get their nonsensical and ignorant sound-bytes from.


For decades they've researched and patented green energy solutions to control future 3nergy demands. Now oil is running out it's the time to start cashing in on the alternatives.

They do this to collect cash, not for any genuine concern for the environment. Successful businesses are run by sociopaths not humans.
 
can we all agree that @Barry Rathbone is a ignorant cleft of the highest order
For decades they've researched and patented green energy solutions to control future 3nergy demands. Now oil is running out it's the time to start cashing in on the alternatives.

They do this to collect cash, not for any genuine concern for the environment. Successful businesses are run by sociopaths not humans.
Was about to say similar. They're building up to the oil running out...
 
For decades they've researched and patented green energy solutions to control future 3nergy demands. Now oil is running out it's the time to start cashing in on the alternatives.

They do this to collect cash, not for any genuine concern for the environment. Successful businesses are run by sociopaths not humans.

Yep, no doubt. I didn't actually believe that they were "into" saving the environment!
 
@Barry Rathbone so you believe there isn't enough evidence to support the idea of man made climate change. I'd be interested to hear your take on the latest news from NASA https://climate.nasa.gov/news/2943/...are-getting-future-warming-projections-right/

Especially as you have already used NASA once to help prop up your arguments:

Seems to be greening the planet though if NASA are to be believed after all it is plant food :p

Will you at least concede that the processes that create the CO2 polllute the air with other particles that cause health problems, especially in big cities? If yes, and it can't really be anything other than yes if you follow the science, do you also support moving to cleaner energy sources/vehicles to alleviate this problem?
 
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