Current Affairs Climate Change Demonstrations.....

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peteblue said:
The reason that China makes so much stuff for us is because it is cheap, labour and other costs. Going green is expensive. If they went ‘green’ their costs would rise, the costs of products would rise and production would build up in the next cheap place, India. China has no incentive to go green at this point in time.....
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China is going green faster than every other country, save possibly Germany.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/En...nd-Japan-to-take-lead-in-wind-and-solar-power
 
Toffee-nerd said:
I dont think people understand what the aim of the climate strikes is. They're drawing attention to an issue that needs actual leadership on an international scale. It's all well and good putting targets out there with the Paris agreement etc but what's the vehicle that we use to reach those targets? Governmental policy.

We the end consumers of "stuff" can make our small changes, sure they add up if everyone does them, but fundamentally governments need to start putting environmentally responsible policies forward and getting them implemented. Renewable Energy generation, pushing targets onto manufacturers and big business, changing the way those targets are adhered to.

On a personal level working in aus, in a role that has implications on the direction of where this medium sized business goes from an environmental perspective has really highlighted the true lack of state and federal direction to me. We as a business have implemented things you would consider basic from an environmental stand point: cardboard recycling, energy tracking and reduction projects, vehicle fuel reduction projects, replacing interstate trips with video calls where possible, solar power generation etc The issue is there is absolutely zero incentive to do these things, we looked at using plant based packaging, a circular economy with local customers but the costs are prohibitive. We would lose money per unit and there is only so much you can do without incurring additional costs and putting the business in a position that isnt viable.


This is where governments need to change policy and be firm on implemeting that policy. Take waste recycling in australia as an example, there are few plants domestically that can process recyclable materials - plastic packaging being one example. People do what they think is the right thing, segregate their waste for recycling curbside. Waste is collected every fortnight and they think job done, I've done a small bit meaningful thing, been responsible with my waste segregation. But where does that stuff go? Up until about a year ago it was getting shipped to south east Asia, huge additional CO2 emissions to transport the stuff for reprocessing. The vast majority of it then ending up either as land fill or being burnt for fuel, again more emissions. So instead of taking ownership of the problem and putting infrastructure in place, tackling the root cause of why the chuff is everything packaged using plastic, the government policy was to send it overseas and forget about it. It's completely irresponsible and this is the sort of issue that needs to change at government level. Nevermind opening up new coal power stations in a nation that has the biggest availability of renewable power generation.

These protests are about raising these issue, getting people to talk and think about these sorts of things which then puts the chumps in charge under pressure. We can all do these small changes but they're pointless if the infrastructure and commitment isnt there to get things moving on a much bigger scale. China, India etc have to be reined in, we cannot keep allowing huge volumes of fossil fuels to be burnt, plastic to be generated all while we race to the bottom on cost of goods sold. The USA goes through 20million barrels of oil per day, 20 million. One country. We are in a disgusting mess imo.
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Totally agree, but as I’ve said there’s nothing in it for China, India etc in going green, and the focus of these marches seem to be directed at those who are already going green.......
 
peteblue said:
The reason that China makes so much stuff for us is because it is cheap, labour and other costs. Going green is expensive. If they went ‘green’ their costs would rise, the costs of products would rise and production would build up in the next cheap place, India. China has no incentive to go green at this point in time.....
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So are you saying that our current socioeconomic system isn't sustainable?
 
peteblue said:
Germany is one of the biggest polluters in the EU......and a rate of change does not equate to a current absolute pollution position....
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No, but it does mean that their 'absolute pollution position' is improving faster than anywhere else, and that your claim that 'China has no incentive to go green at this point in time' is not accurate, because they are already going green at this point in time, and faster than anyone else.
 
peteblue said:
It will move. China has risen from nothing to where it is, India will eventually follow, then a number of African nations will take over......
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You haven't quite answered my question.

Are you saying that, given the increasingly obvious climate catastrophe we find ourselves in, our current socioeconomic system which focuses primarily on growth is unsustainable?
 
peteblue said:
China is the worlds biggest polluter. Germany is one of the biggest polluters in the EU......and a rate of change does not equate to a current absolute pollution position....
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Thats only because they have 1 billion people in the country, USA produces double the pollution per capita than China. If USA had the population of China we'd probably all be underwater by now the way they burn through non renewables
 
dwightschrute said:
Thats only because they have 1 billion people in the country, USA produces double the pollution per capita than China. If USA had the population of China we'd probably all be underwater by now the way they burn through non renewables
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And much of that comes from producing the goods we consume, which is why - as many have already pointed out - it is idiotic to absolve Britain and other Western Countries by blaming China or India.
 
peteblue said:
The reason that China makes so much stuff for us is because it is cheap, labour and other costs. Going green is expensive. If they went ‘green’ their costs would rise, the costs of products would rise and production would build up in the next cheap place, India. China has no incentive to go green at this point in time.....
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Christ alive, then we'd actually have to start caring about the conditions our beloved "Stuff" is made in and being prepared to pay more for it to ensure it wasn't destroying the planet and was providing factory workers with a decent living in a safe environment. And that would never do.
 
Incidentally, China's drive for renewable energy comes not just from the fact that (unlike @peteblue) they recognise that climate change poses an existential threat, but also because they see the stupendous strategic value in being the first to corner the market.

Why would any country continue importing oil from America's idiotic Gulf allies when it could install Chinese solar technology instead, and never again have to rely on Donald Trump for energy security?

In strategic terms, China will continue eating the West's lunch, not because they are especially good at it, because they are the only country that still understands what geopolitics even mean.

In the West meanwhile, the best and brightest are committed instead to eroding the social order and driving millions of their own citizens into pointless economic hardship, in a grand experiment to see who can implement the purest form of long dead and discredited Austrian economists' authoritarian fantasies.
 
Number_25 said:
yes, yes it is.
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So, there's been no impact on the climate from Socialist countries? There's a definitive link between a countries political stand point and air pollution for example?

Or is that ridiculous over simplification of the issue which helps no one?
 
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