Current Affairs Climate Change Demonstrations.....

[abelard]

So, there's been no impact on the climate from Socialist countries? There's a definitive link between a countries political stand point and air pollution for example?

Or is that ridiculous over simplification of the issue which helps no one?

Genuinely not sure what you're getting at here...

 

[zzr45]

Genuinely not sure what you're getting at here...

It's alright, a grown up will be along shortly to help you.

 

[Number_25]

So, there's been no impact on the climate from Socialist countries? There's a definitive link between a countries political stand point and air pollution for example?

Or is that ridiculous over simplification of the issue which helps no one?

Do you mind pointing out where I said that there was "no impact on the climate from Socialist countries"?

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Obviously I know it's not every kid, but speaking to a neighbour the other day whose lad skipped school to go on the marches. She was telling that me that she got that Greta Thunberg speech up to show him, and his response was "Who's that"

 

[abelard]

It's alright, a grown up will be along shortly to help you.

Which rules you out, obviously

Maybe just work on your sentence structure instead?

 

[zzr45]

Do you mind pointing out where I said that there was "no impact on the climate from Socialist countries"?

You haven't quite answered my question.

Are you saying that, given the increasingly obvious climate catastrophe we find ourselves in, our current socioeconomic system which focuses primarily on growth is unsustainable?

In strategic terms, China will continue eating the West's lunch, not because they are especially good at it, because they are the only country that still understands what geopolitics even mean.

In the West meanwhile, the best and brightest are committed instead to eroding the social order and driving millions of their own citizens into pointless economic hardship, in a grand experiment to see who can implement the purest form of long dead and discredited Austrian economists' authoritarian fantasies.

There's two examples where the state of the Climate has been put squarely on the door of Western Capitalism/socio-economics. The implications behind such statements are rather transparent.

 

[Jebus_lives]

So, there's been no impact on the climate from Socialist countries? There's a definitive link between a countries political stand point and air pollution for example?

Or is that ridiculous over simplification of the issue which helps no one?

So...climate change is politically influenced then.

 

[zzr45]

So...climate change is politically influenced then.

No, not at all - whatever side of the political divide people have been on they have contributed to climate change. To start framing it, as regrettably has started happening, as another Left vs. Right issue is stupid. It's something which affects us all and using it as cheap political point scoring is daft.

 

[abelard]

There's two examples where the state of the Climate has been put squarely on the door of Western Capitalism/socio-economics. The implications behind such statements are rather transparent.

Ah, I see... so you actually think China's economy is still 'socialist'. Wasn't sure what that was meant to refer to.

If you review my posts in this thread, you'll see that what I have actually said throughout is that although China's total carbon emissions are much higher than Britain's, China is also doing far more than any other country to transition from fossil fuels. I've cited multiple sources. I am making a discrete point about China, and not attributing climate change solely to Western Capitalism/socio-economics, whatever that even means.

My posts were in response to another poster, who claimed that demanding Britain reduce its own emissions was wrong because other countries' including China are higher.

They have nothing to do with blaming capitalism; in many ways, China is far more 'capitalist' than any Western country. Yet it still cares more than almost any other country about reducing emissions. I also noted that Germany (ie: 'Western Capitalism/socio-economics) is competitive with China in renewable energy (though @peteblue is correct to note that they still burn a lot of coal).

The second post of mine which you've quoted has absolutely nothing to do with what you've just written. Read it again, more thoughtfully.

For whatever reason, you seem determined to start pedantic and tiresome quarrels with people today, and I'm not going to bore the rest of the forum by dragging this out any further, like what you did with @tsubaki

So, free shot - tell me I'm a stupid hypocritical communist (but for the full effect, this time try proof-reading your sentences first).

 

[zzr45]

Ah, I see... so you actually think China's economy is still 'socialist'. Wasn't sure what that was meant to refer to.

If you review my posts in this thread, you'll see that what I have actually said throughout is that although China's total carbon emissions are much higher than Britain's, China is also doing far more than any other country to transition from fossil fuels. I've cited multiple sources. I am making a discrete point about China, and not attributing climate change solely to Western Capitalism/socio-economics, whatever that even means.

My posts were in response to another poster, who claimed that demanding Britain reduce its own emissions was wrong because other countries' including China are higher.

They have nothing to do with blaming capitalism; in many ways, China is far more 'capitalist' than any Western country. Yet it still cares more than almost any other country about reducing emissions. I also noted that Germany (ie: 'Western Capitalism/socio-economics) is competitive with China in renewable energy (though @peteblue is correct to note that they still burn a lot of coal).

The second post of mine which you've quoted has absolutely nothing to do with what you've just written. Read it again, more thoughtfully.

For whatever reason, you seem determined to start pedantic and tiresome quarrels with people today, and I'm not going to bore the rest of the forum by dragging this out any further, like what you did with @tsubaki

So, free shot - tell me I'm a stupid hypocritical communist (but for the full effect, this time try proof-reading your sentences first).

lol lol lol

My god, how deluded are you?

In the West meanwhile, the best and brightest are committed instead to eroding the social order and driving millions of their own citizens into pointless economic hardship, in a grand experiment to see who can implement the purest form of long dead and discredited Austrian economists' authoritarian fantasies.

You don't get how that reads as how 'Capitalism' is to blame?

Right.

 

[abelard]

lol lol lol

My god, how deluded are you?

In the West meanwhile, the best and brightest are committed instead to eroding the social order and driving millions of their own citizens into pointless economic hardship, in a grand experiment to see who can implement the purest form of long dead and discredited Austrian economists' authoritarian fantasies.

You don't get how that reads as how 'Capitalism' is to blame?

Right.

For austerity.

aka "driving millions of their own citizens into pointless economic hardship"

 

[orchard]

There's two examples where the state of the Climate has been put squarely on the door of Western Capitalism/socio-economics. The implications behind such statements are rather transparent.

Bit early for you to be sloshed mate.

Obviously consumerism doesn't help. Most damage is done in totalitarian states, like ours, the us is tending towards, and soviet russia of the past.

 

[Jebus_lives]

No, not at all - whatever side of the political divide people have been on they have contributed to climate change. To start framing it, as regrettably has started happening, as another Left vs. Right issue is stupid. It's something which affects us all and using it as cheap political point scoring is daft.

Well the point was if it was a political issue, rather than a left or right political issue. I read it as you dismissing it as a political issue altogether.

 

[zzr45]

Bit early for you to be sloshed mate.

Obviously consumerism doesn't help. Most damage is done in totalitarian states, like ours, the us is tending towards, and soviet russia of the past.

It doesn’t - but how much of it is actually down to the human condition? As a species we are always looking for the way of doing things that saves time/involves us exerting physical energy (by and large) so things like driving half a mile rather than drive.

Obviously as education/environmental knowledge improves the easier it becomes to fight past those basic urges - so know to walk rather than drive.

Then there’s obviously bits like what drives people to buy bigger and better cars - is it all based just on consumerism or is there deeper human motivation at play?

Arguably, we are at a bit of a watershed moment where that millennia old conditioning is being challenged by the consequences of our actions.

Round the houses, but there’s more at play rather than just political outlooks.

 

[orchard]

It doesn’t - but how much of it is actually down to the human condition? As a species we are always looking for the way of doing things that saves time/involves us exerting physical energy (by and large) so things like driving half a mile rather than drive.

Obviously as education/environmental knowledge improves the easier it becomes to fight past those basic urges - so know to walk rather than drive.

Then there’s obviously bits like what drives people to buy bigger and better cars - is it all based just on consumerism or is there deeper human motivation at play?

Arguably, we are at a bit of a watershed moment where that millennia old conditioning is being challenged by the consequences of our actions.

Round the houses, but there’s more at play rather than just political outlooks.

Wasn't there a hominid in Africa that became dominant and controlled the areas of abundant fruit (easy pickings) for a long period, and then died out when the environment changed and they died out because they were consequently unadaptive?
I don't think it's just a human trait either, see birds becoming dependent upon urban feeders for example.

So yeah, maybe without the sapiens bit, we are as you describe, maybe more clever than wise when it comes to 'accepting' the Adam Smith division of labour and industrialisation.

I think there's a germ of truth in Heidegger's work on technology, in that technological innovations cause unforseen consequences for which we look again to technology to solve, perpetuating the cycle.
Anyway, i'm gonna bore-off now after this waffle, but I do think we need to change, to become more human again, and less dependent on big technological solutions/ideas/systems, choose the technology that we do use far more wisely, and hide the gin from statisticians.