City to bid £20 mil for Rodders...

[kenada_blue]

At 20 Gerrard and Lampard were England internationals. Lampard had already scored 5+ Prem league goals for 3 seasons running. Gerrard was already a regular for a Champions League club and at 20 was named Young player of the Year. He was also named PFA Fans Player of the Year and in ther FA team of the year. This is miles ahead of Rodwell. Milner didn't get transfered for big money until he was 24 years old and had proven himself. At 22 Villa fans were complianing tye'd over paid for him, depsite that fact he'd probably also done more than Rodwell. Carroll I'll accept, but he's a target man and they usually develop later as the position is so reliant on strength. I've seen the Gerrard comparison used before I he really hasn't earned it, or even come close to earning it. Rodwell wouldn't be in the Everton first team if everyone was fit, when Gerrard was nameed in the entire Prem team of the year at the same age.

Lampard or gerrard were not full regular internationals till 23-24, lampard especially as a certain Paul scholes kept them out.

 

[joey55]

But lets face it, Franny Jeffers and Michael Ball were prob in the same team as both of them for Engerland, who were prob rebounding from some peno disaster show and focussin gon "youth". Jacks just gone 20 and i wouldnt rule out a full cap by next March - lets be honest the media were screaming for him to be included in the senior sqaud - at 17 after the last U21 tournament. Happily Wilshire has come along to take some of that pressure. Anyway Gerrard got one at 20 and Lamaprd 21 - like i say i wouldnt rule out Jack being called up by March - especially if he impresses in the summer.

Not to be fecious in any way, but shock horror Liverpool player gets awards voted for by Media and fans - i mean come on - we all know the storey there - Messi could play for us and still not get an acolade - i cite one Baines of Leighton. As for being at a CL club - well thats just an unfortunate coincidence really, arent the clubs who want to sign Jack CL clubs - so i fail to see the point. Ah so Milner was 24 so had five more years expierence under his belt, were was he at just gone 20 mate! PL team of the year?????????? Your jokeing right - did you see it this year?

But the point with Milner is that he wasn't bought for his potential, he was bought for what he had become. At 20 he hadn't done much and thus wasn't valued highly. He wasn't even valued much at 23. People are saying Rodwell is worth £25 million for what he might become. So using Milner as a comparison is like saying he's worth £25 million as he might develop in to a £25 million player.

We discussed Rodwell a couple of months back and since then I've watched him carefully as it would be wrong of me to dimiss other people's opinions. But I've seen nothing in his performances since then to suggest he's going to be anything special. I can only really comment I what I see and to be fair, i can't see how any Evertonians could really have much issuse with those having doubts about him. As for him him being wanted by the likes of SAF, Wenger and Mancinni, I just don't believe it. I've only read about him being linked with those clubs in the press and we all know so much of that is rubbish. I remember the likes of Jenas and Micah Richards constantly being linked with the likes of Utd and Arsenal in the press, but in reallity were they ever really interested?

 

[Neiler]

Heres the thing also with Sunderland, Newcastle, Spurs, Villa as someone - spending again as someone mentioned, their all in rag order, not that we're not but what is effecting us in terms of different turnover/overhaeds and credit arrangements is also effecting others.

Spurs are crying poor mouth.

Sunderlands team is almost all on loan - Onuha, Mulltari, Wellbeck - they have lost Bent.

Newcastle have the Andy Carroll cash to spend but to be honest even with two or three player their still a fair bit of the quality of our sqaud.

While Villa are financially screwed and like us are following a spend to buy policy.

Even if they all lash another 20 mill into their squads, which they wont without selling, lets be honest its nothing we havnt seen before.

 

[joey55]

Lampard or gerrard were not full regular internationals till 23-24, lampard especially as a certain Paul scholes kept them out.

Gerrard played regularly in the qualifiers for the 2002 WC. He actually went to Euro 2000. But we are comapring them to a player who hasn't even had a call up. The long and the short of it is that some are suggesting a 20 year old, who hasn't even been called into a full England squad yet, is worth around or even over £25 million. All those who don't agree are saying is that surely he's got to demonstrate that he's worth large sums of money before he can reallistically be sold for such amounts. If he is sold in the summer for the sums being suggested around here it will be pretty much unprecedented and therefore I'd be amazed if it happened.

 

[Neiler]

But the point with Milner is that he wasn't bought for his potential, he was bought for what he had become. At 20 he hadn't done much and thus wasn't valued highly. He wasn't even valued much at 23. People are saying Rodwell is worth £25 million for what he might become. So using Milner as a comparison is like saying he's worth £25 million as he might develop in to a £25 million player.

But to be fair that wasnt my arguement, someone asked what players at 20 had gone on to be worth over 20 mill at 24.

We discussed Rodwell a couple of months back and since then I've watched him carefully as it would be wrong of me to dimiss other people's opinions. But I've seen nothing in his performances since then to suggest he's going to be anything special. I can only really comment I what I see and to be fair, i can't see how any Evertonians could really have much issuse with those having doubts about him. As for him him being wanted by the likes of SAF, Wenger and Mancinni, I just don't believe it. I've only read about him being linked with those clubs in the press and we all know so much of that is rubbish. I remember the likes of Jenas and Micah Richards constantly being linked with the likes of Utd and Arsenal in the press, but in reallity were they ever really interested?

Each to his own mate, it frightens me people dont see his talent and potential, im not saying hes amazing, im saying he will be. Why? Because all the tools are there and ive seen him at the top of his game, at the top of his game if he can develop consistencey, do it every game and over a season - we have one of the best players in the country on our hands. Frankly i think hes a little spoilt at the moment in terms of his development and need a good kick up the backside or some kind adversity - everything has come to easy for him up untill now and he lacks the hunger. Jack can be whatever he wants to be for me, but i agree with what people say that currently he is lacking in the psychological end of the game!

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

But to be fair that wasnt my arguement, someone asked what players at 20 had gone on to be worth over 20 mill at 24.




Each to his own mate, it frightens me people dont see his talent and potential, im not saying hes amazing, im saying he will be. Why? Because all the tools are there and ive seen him at the top of his game, at the top of his game if he can develop consistencey, do it every game and over a season - we have one of the best players in the country on our hands. Frankly i think hes a little spoilt at the moment in terms of his development and need a good kick up the backside or some kind adversity - everything has come to easy for him up untill now and he lacks the hunger. Jack can be whatever he wants to be for me, but i agree with what people say that currently he is lacking in the psychological end of the game!

When in particular would you say he's been on the top of his game?

 

[Cookachoo]

When in particular would you say he's been on the top of his game?

5 minutes against United 14 months ago.

 

[Neiler]

When in particular would you say he's been on the top of his game?

5 minutes against United 14 months ago.

I had him as one of the best players at the U21 Championship, playing against his peers, i know that opinion differs but i saw him dominate from midfeild, box - box. At 20 the level he has hit, he is good average PL player, but lets be honest a year and half ago people were calling Fellaini the same thing and he was older.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I had him as one of the best players at the U21 Championship, playing against his peers, i know that opinion differs but i saw him dominate from midfeild, box - box. At 20 the level he has hit, he is good average PL player, but lets be honest a year and half ago people were calling Fellaini the same thing and he was older.

I didn't see any of said championship, where was it he played in terms of midfield? Moyes doesn't seem to know where he plays best and if he played dynamite in the championships it would be wise to see him played there. That way we can see what the hype is all about.

 

[kenada_blue]

Gerrard played regularly in the qualifiers for the 2002 WC. He actually went to Euro 2000. But we are comapring them to a player who hasn't even had a call up. The long and the short of it is that some are suggesting a 20 year old, who hasn't even been called into a full England squad yet, is worth around or even over £25 million. All those who don't agree are saying is that surely he's got to demonstrate that he's worth large sums of money before he can reallistically be sold for such amounts. If he is sold in the summer for the sums being suggested around here it will be pretty much unprecedented and therefore I'd be amazed if it happened.

1st call up at 20
Starting to feature age 22
Regular at 24.

And gerrard by 24 was world class. And many young players have gone to tournaments randomly doesn't represent how good they are in some cases at that age, Walcott going at 16 for example.

And for the most part for the past decade even more the England national team has always been dominated by flavour of the season/top 4 side players, which again I don't feel is valid agruement to use internationals to represent quality. Because you're and international doesn't mean you're good eg heskey.

 

[Neiler]

I didn't see any of said championship, where was it he played in terms of midfield? Moyes doesn't seem to know where he plays best and if he played dynamite in the championships it would be wise to see him played there. That way we can see what the hype is all about.

Basicly breaking from deep and maurading forward with pace, strength and power preety much where we see, Mikel and Fellaini play, he reminded very much of the way Gerrard had played that season - who just came of the back of prob his best season that year.

 

[Neiler]

1st call up at 20
Starting to feature age 22
Regular at 24.

And gerrard by 24 was world class. And many young players have gone to tournaments randomly doesn't represent how good they are in some cases at that age, Walcott going at 16 for example.

And for the most part for the past decade even more the England national team has always been dominated by flavour of the season/top 4 side players, which again I don't feel is valid agruement to use internationals to represent quality. Because you're and international doesn't mean you're good eg heskey.

* Coughs Warnock.

 

[joey55]

I had him as one of the best players at the U21 Championship, playing against his peers, i know that opinion differs but i saw him dominate from midfeild, box - box. At 20 the level he has hit, he is good average PL player, but lets be honest a year and half ago people were calling Fellaini the same thing and he was older.

You've said this before though and whilst accept that opinions differ we should put what you are saying in perspective. He only started on game in the tournament, which was against Germany, after both teams had qualified. So only 8 of the 22 players that started the final, were chosen for that game. It was a second string match, in which Adam Johnson was the the official MOTM. His only appearances after that were a disaster and that isn't an exaggertion. He played in 2 other games, for a total of less than 30 mins, in which time he was poor, gave a free kick away that led to a goal, gave the ball away which led to a goal and hardly had a kick. In 30 mins of competitive action with him playing England conceded 4 and scored zero. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say your opinion is wrong, but I think most would agree to say one decent showing in a second string game, makes it pretty much impossible to be one to the best players in the tournament, especially considering how he performed in the other games.

 

[Neiler]

You've said this before though and whilst accept that opinions differ we should put what you are saying in perspective. He only started on game in the tournament, which was against Germany, after both teams had qualified. So only 8 of the 22 players that started the final, were chosen for that game. It was a second string match, in which Adam Johnson was the the official MOTM. His only appearances after that were a disaster and that isn't an exaggertion. He played in 2 other games, for a total of less than 30 mins, in which time he was poor, gave a free kick away that led to a goal, gave the ball away which led to a goal and hardly had a kick. In 30 mins of competitive action with him playing England conceded 4 and scored zero. I'm not going to be so arrogant as to say your opinion is wrong, but I think most would agree to say one decent showing in a second string game, makes it pretty much impossible to be one to the best players in the tournament, especially considering how he performed in the other games.

Thats pretty hot for someone who hadnt seen the tournament! Lol

Ah time is the great leveler mate, one of us will be right and quite possibly one of us will be wrong.

*But i fancy my chances!

 

[joey55]

Thats pretty hot for someone who hadnt seen the tournament! Lol
Ah time is the great leveler mate, one of us will be right and quite possibly one of us will be wrong.

*But i fancy my chances!

CahillsCornerFlag said he didn't see the tournament, not me. I've said before that i watched the tournament. But to be honest, anyone who hasn't seen the tournament could have said as much, as, like I said, i can't see how he can have been one of the best players when he played 1 full game in essentially a second string match and less than 30 mins in the rest.

I agree we'll have to wait and see what happens and no one can claim to be right or wrong for a good few years yet. But to be honest I hope I'm not wrong, as the moment he does start showing signs of being a £25 million+ player, he'll be off in my opinion. I actually think it's better for Everton if he becomes a Carrick standard of player, as that means a good player, who might not tempt the bigger clubs (I know Carrick went to Man utd, but you'll know what I mean). It's sad state of affairs but I think it's better to have a good player that can be kept, rather than a great player that will be sold, as the money wont be used to improve the squad. £25 million will come in, ten of which will be spent on an average replacement and the rest wont be seen again. The way i see it, is that the club would have been better off if Rooney had been Defoe standard, as he could well still be there. It's not as if producing a top class talent like Rooney and the money recieved for him was of much benefit.