Champions League Restructure

[Everton1970]

The CL has been devalued for years. Real Madrid have been the last great team to win it...and they were only great about five yeras ago....and kept on winning it when they were well past it.

Barca 2015?

That was past peak Barca. Peak Barca was against Man Utd in 2011.

The last great side was the Madrid team that beat Atletico in the first final against them in 2014. IMO.

That’s how the exchange started. I said Barca 2015 were the last great team to win it, you said they were past it’s peak. If you say their peak was 2011, does that mean that every Barca side in the future can’t be as good and could never be classed as great because they never hit them peaks? If that’s the argument you’re going down......Real Madrid was past it’s peak in 2014, as they hit their peak in 1998-2002 IMO.

Jeez, you’re hard work. I can see why many on here have you on ignore and accuse you of hijacking every thread with inane drivel. I shall be following suit.

 

[davek]

That’s how the exchange started. I said Barca 2015 were the last great team to win it, you said they were past it’s peak. If you say their peak was 2011, does that mean that every Barca side in the future can’t be as good and could never be classed as great because they never hit them peaks? If that’s the argument you’re going down......Real Madrid was past it’s peak in 2014, as they hit their peak in 1998-2002 IMO.

Jeez, you’re hard work. I can see why many on here have you on ignore and accuse you of hijacking every thread with inane drivel. I shall be following suit.

The exchanged started when you focussed on Barcelona. Your first stement was that Barcelona 2015 were a great team...I countered with 'that team was past peak Barca'. The rest flowed from there.

In any case, the merry-go-round here is obscuring one thing: there is no team since the demise of Barcelona and Madrid who can be described as great.

UEFA sense the fall off and are now tearing up the competition rules in an effort to cover up the dearth of truly class teams.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Imagine thinking a team that won the treble and scored 175 goals in all competitions doing it wasn't an all time great team because a team before them might have been better. Just wild logic.

Anyway this idea is still a complete farce and it's a shame that the greedy clowns at the top of the Premier League don't have the balls to say no.

 

[Everton1970]

The exchanged started when you focussed on Barcelona. Your first stement was that Barcelona 2015 were a great team...I countered with 'that team was past peak Barca'. The rest flowed from there.

In any case, the merry-go-round here is obscuring one thing: there is no team since the demise of Barcelona and Madrid who can be described as great.

UEFA sense the fall off and are now tearing up the competition rules in an effort to cover up the dearth of truly class teams.

How can that side be a great side by just winning the Champions League and a Copa Del Rey. They entered the completion by finishing runners up and hadn’t won their domestic league for 2 years. Yet the Barca side of 2015, won the treble and retained the League the following year. If this 2014 Real side were so good, why did they finish 3rd in the League in 2014? And why couldn’t they beat a past it’s peak Barca team? The Madrid side of 2016-17 that won the League and Champions League double were better than the 2014 team. They won more.

 

[Everton1970]

Imagine thinking a team that won the treble and scored 175 goals in all competitions doing it wasn't an all time great team because a team before them might have been better. Just wild logic.

Anyway this idea is still a complete farce and it's a shame that the greedy clowns at the top of the Premier League don't have the balls to say no.

If we somehow managed to win the League this season, the team would be past it’s peak, as peak Everton happened in the 80s. Perfectly logical.

 

[Mr. Wig]

davek makes it up as he goes along.

 

[davek]

How can that side be a great side by just winning the Champions League and a Copa Del Rey. They entered the completion by finishing runners up and hadn’t won their domestic league for 2 years. Yet the Barca side of 2015, won the treble and retained the League the following year. If this 2014 Real side were so good, why did they finish 3rd in the League in 2014? And why couldn’t they beat a past it’s peak Barca team? The Madrid side of 2016-17 that won the League and Champions League double were better than the 2014 team. They won more.

Question: do you think there was a great CL team in the years:

Madrid beat Juventus 4-1
Madrid beat Atletico on pens
Liverpool beat Spurs 2-0

?

Do you think the period since the Zidane Madrid team of the early 2000s has seen a spate of great teams, apart from the Barcelona team of 2009 and 2011 led by Xavi and the Madrid team of 2014 led by Ronaldo? If so, name them.


And if you do, good luck with this, because you apply a fairly low bar that CL teams have to negotiate to achieve "greatness".

The CL has been dead in terms of quality since Madrid put the finishing touches to Atletico in that 2014 final....THAT'S WHY IT'S BEING TORN UP BY UEFA.

 

[roydo]

The CL has been dead in terms of quality since Madrid put the finishing touches to Atletico in that 2014 final....THAT'S WHY IT'S BEING TORN UP BY UEFA.

So why will they be inviting these poor teams to their new one then?

The quality of teams and football in general ebbs and flows like anything in sport, if UEFA are going to do sommet with it, the reason is centre stage £££££££. Barca and Real Madrid are seriously struggling, relatively, with their finances.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I'm honestly at the stage now where if Everton qualified for the Champions League I don't even think I'd bother going to the games

The Tournament has been perverted for too long and is just a money making exercise for the established heavy hitters

What prestige does it really actually have any more?

 

[davek]

So why will they be inviting these poor teams to their new one then?

The quality of teams and football in general ebbs and flows like anything in sport, if UEFA are going to do sommet with it, the reason is centre stage £££££££. Barca and Real Madrid are seriously struggling, relatively, with their finances.

It's simple mate: what they're doing isn't meant to address the lack of quality, it's meant to add more viewing figures. They'll get that by adding a new flavour into a format that's gone stale.

It's desperate stuff, and it just underlines that - though failing big leagues like Seria A might need the CL - a league like ours is much more laden with spectacle and excitement and it's more difficult to win than the CL.

 

[ToffeeDan]

The present arrangement (top half qualify, third Europa, bottom knocked out) is just about ok (albeit with 24/32 prequalifying) . To double each league size (7 or 14 games) and not make 3/4 of the entrants re-qualify sounds like a Protection Racket to me. Basically finish sixth and then sign off for the rest of the domestic season will destroy the national leagues. Why bother chasing top four. Just blood some youth players.

 

[roydo]

a league like ours is much more laden with spectacle and excitement and it's more difficult to win than the CL.

And the last English CHAMPIONS to win the CL were...........?

 

[davek]

And the last English CHAMPIONS to win the CL were...........?

It doesn't matter that our champions haven't won since United beat Chelsea or that English teams have won the CL four times in the last 20 years.

The PL is a 38 game marathon where, generally, you have to be winning each week if you want to lift the trophy and it has the best players in the world apart from a those at the two major Spanish clubs and a couple elsewhere.

 

[Everton1970]

Question: do you think there was a great CL team in the years:

Madrid beat Juventus 4-1
Madrid beat Atletico on pens
Liverpool beat Spurs 2-0

?

Do you think the period since the Zidane Madrid team of the early 2000s has seen a spate of great teams, apart from the Barcelona team of 2009 and 2011 led by Xavi and the Madrid team of 2014 led by Ronaldo? If so, name them.


And if you do, good luck with this, because you apply a fairly low bar that CL teams have to negotiate to achieve "greatness".

The CL has been dead in terms of quality since Madrid put the finishing touches to Atletico in that 2014 final....THAT'S WHY IT'S BEING TORN UP BY UEFA.

Naming all the great teams over the last 20 years is another argument. I thought we were talking about the last great team to win it, you say Barca 2015 weren’t great but Real 2014 was. I can’t get my head around that. To be a great team you have to win more than one major Cup. Cups can be fluked, as we’ve seen. The great 2014 team finished 3rd in the League and runners up the year before. I wonder if you’d have the same opinion if i
You’ve backed yourself into a corner here and, as usual, you’re stubbornness and refusal to accept you are wrong, makes you look silly.

Great teams win great things. You yourself say the Champions League has been devalued for years, a team finishing in 3rd place in their domestic league and not winning it for 2 years previous to that, kind of backs that up I suppose. The 2016-17 team was better. They won more. Look at the starting 11s from both the 2014 and the 2017 finals, imo the 2017 was better as was borne out by them winning the Champs League, la Liga double. And they retained it 3 years on the bounce.
We can all argue about the quality of it now, but just because the Orcs and Spurs contested it shouldn’t lessen the quality. Spurs, fortuitously beat City in what was a brilliant game. The Orcs beat Barca, in whichever way you look at it, was some achievement, the way that did it. If Barca v City had contested the Final, would you still say the quality was crap? I don’t think you would, as the best 2 teams in Europe would have been contesting it. It’s a Cup competition, the best don’t always win. Surely you recognise that. I think the English teams are getting back to being the best in Europe, just because it’s ‘Them’ at the moment shouldn’t let that get in the way of how enjoyable the Champions League knockout phase was last year. UTD v PSG, Atletico v Juve, the brilliant Ajax team and performance v Real, City v Spurs, Ajax v Juve. Spurs v Ajax. Just because the so called glamorous and historically great teams are/were in transition doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of it. I love watching the big games in the big tournaments and last season didn’t disappoint. Apart from the Semis.

 

[davek]

Naming all the great teams over the last 20 years is another argument. I thought we were talking about the last great team to win it, you say Barca 2015 weren’t great but Real 2014 was. I can’t get my head around that. To be a great team you have to win more than one major Cup. Cups can be fluked, as we’ve seen. The great 2014 team finished 3rd in the League and runners up the year before. I wonder if you’d have the same opinion if i
You’ve backed yourself into a corner here and, as usual, you’re stubbornness and refusal to accept you are wrong, makes you look silly.

Great teams win great things. You yourself say the Champions League has been devalued for years, a team finishing in 3rd place in their domestic league and not winning it for 2 years previous to that, kind of backs that up I suppose. The 2016-17 team was better. They won more. Look at the starting 11s from both the 2014 and the 2017 finals, imo the 2017 was better as was borne out by them winning the Champs League, la Liga double. And they retained it 3 years on the bounce.
We can all argue about the quality of it now, but just because the Orcs and Spurs contested it shouldn’t lessen the quality. Spurs, fortuitously beat City in what was a brilliant game. The Orcs beat Barca, in whichever way you look at it, was some achievement, the way that did it. If Barca v City had contested the Final, would you still say the quality was crap? I don’t think you would, as the best 2 teams in Europe would have been contesting it. It’s a Cup competition, the best don’t always win. Surely you recognise that. I think the English teams are getting back to being the best in Europe, just because it’s ‘Them’ at the moment shouldn’t let that get in the way of how enjoyable the Champions League knockout phase was last year. UTD v PSG, Atletico v Juve, the brilliant Ajax team and performance v Real, City v Spurs, Ajax v Juve. Spurs v Ajax. Just because the so called glamorous and historically great teams are/were in transition doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of it. I love watching the big games in the big tournaments and last season didn’t disappoint. Apart from the Semis.

I think you're failing to get your head around something: if the CL was the competition you say it is: a great spectacle and witnessing the constant regeneration of greateness with the teams that play in it, why on earth is it being - to all intents and purposes - scrapped?

The people who need to keep this cash cow producing see what we all see: a dire spectacle of dull football apart from maybe one game in the latter stages of the competition, at a time when the lack of star quality in the game is at a low ebb. There's no individual now who can mask the cracks in the circus...no Ronaldo, no Messi, no Zidane. The best that can be coughed up is Mbappe or Hazard or Neymar...amoebas compared with the three they replace.