Centre-midfield - we need to take the brakes off

[hudd101]

Well, Moyes was genuinely rubbish at bringing in younger players, so I'm not surprised he hasn't had a chance at all

I don't really agree with the Moyes argument he was poor at bringing through youth. Who's young careers have been furthered having left Everton (Mustafi is the only one off the top of my head) or after Moyes left (barring Ross, of course)? Maybe the players, simply, weren't good enough (like Junior) and didn't deserve a chance?

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I don't really agree with the Moyes argument he was poor at bringing through youth. Who's young careers have been furthered having left Everton (Mustafi is the only one off the top of my head) or after Moyes left (barring Ross, of course)? Maybe the players, simply, weren't good enough (like Junior) and didn't deserve a chance?

I'm sorry, but a Pre-Season match against Morecambe and one bad performance against Leeds in a cup we always do poorly in is just not enough time to decide whether a player has what it takes or not

It just isn't

Gueye has had quite a few chances on the wing and hasn't done that well. With him, you either try him somewhere else on the park, or you send him on his way

Francisco Junior hasn't even had a proper run out in a royal blue shirt and also plays at CM

Now, this may shock everyone, but I'm not a finance expert, but surely it makes more sense to try and develop a younger player who shows promise than spending money to bring someone else in when we desperately need to spend the money on a different striker and we don't really have money for both a quality striker AND a quality mid fielder?

 

[hudd101]

I'm sorry, but a Pre-Season match against Morecambe and one bad performance against Leeds in a cup we always do poorly in is just not enough time to decide whether a player has what it takes or not

It just isn't

Gueye has had quite a few chances on the wing and hasn't done that well. With him, you either try him somewhere else on the park, or you send him on his way

Francisco Junior hasn't even had a proper run out in a royal blue shirt and also plays at CM

Now, this may shock everyone, but I'm not a finance expert, but surely it makes more sense to try and develop a younger player who shows promise than spending money to bring someone else in when we desperately need to spend the money on a different striker and we don't really have money for both a quality striker AND a quality mid fielder?

The point I'm trying to make is that maybe Moyes and Martinez have both seen enough of Junior in training and the reserves and just don't rate him. Sending him out on loan, I presume, is a last resort or the reason is no one was willing to pay a fee that we may demand for him. About Gueye, I've seen enough of him playing on the wing to tell you he's not going to make it in the Premier League -he's too slow physically and mentally. I think he's quite a good passer and crosser but that really doesn't make up for his lack of physical attributes.

 

[Fuleco]

Diego Milito was boss for his Inter team like.

 

[bicycleheader]

First priority should be a striker in my opinion

As already mentioned, we can just move Barkley to CM and then use Naismith as the player behind the striker

I'd rather us spend on a striker and get that covered before we starting spending on another mid fielder

I know you love Naisy but the player behind the striker needs to have good control in tight spaces and be able to link the play and create chances.

Naisys a trier but he doesn't really have any of the above qualities Mikey. He is fine to have in the squad but we will be a better team when he is rarely even an option off the bench.

For me a striker and a replacement for Pienaar who can play more across all three supporting positions are our priorities. I'm not sure which one is greater.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

Naismith's best position is being behind the Striker and being an irritant to the defense

Granted, when you ask him to actually play football, it doesn't end that well, but he can shoot and he never stops working, all which would be useful qualities in that area of the pitch

It was in that area that he had the best run of his career

 

[bicycleheader]

Naismith's best position is being behind the Striker and being an irritant to the defense

Granted, when you ask him to actually play football, it doesn't end that well, but he can shoot and he never stops working, all which would be useful qualities in that area of the pitch

It was in that area that he had the best run of his career

At a different level, and used in a different way. He was more a feeding off the scraps/battling for possession type second striker.

Our system will use a playmaker, we should be getting past using a player just because they are a trier. Most young players coming through in the better footballing countries will have technical ability that Naismith will never have, however we can only hope to get players who will combine that with Naismiths workrate and commitment.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

At a different level, and used in a different way. He was more a feeding off the scraps/battling for possession type second striker.

Our system will use a playmaker, we should be getting past using a player just because they are a trier. Most young players coming through in the better footballing countries will have technical ability that Naismith will never have, however we can only hope to get players who will combine that with Naismiths workrate and commitment.

Thing is mate, people like the Italians and the Spannish respect the battling British style and accept that it has it's merits. You should read "Inverting The Pyramid". All footballing cultures admire the qualities they don't have

Flexibility is key to success and sometimes effort and endeavour will defeat pure skill

You can't just say we have to play one way and that a play maker is key because if we ALWAYS play like that the better teams will learn how to nulify it

Sometimes you really need a maurauding Scot to run at defenders and put them on edge

 

[bicycleheader]

Thing is mate, people like the Italians and the Spannish respect the battling British style and accept that it has it's merits. You should read "Inverting The Pyramid". All footballing cultures admire the qualities they don't have

Flexibility is key to success and sometimes effort and endeavour will defeat pure skill

You can't just say we have to play one way and that a play maker is key because if we ALWAYS play like that the better teams will learn how to nulify it

Sometimes you really need a maurauding Scot to run at defenders and put them on edge

Thats a great book, and its true that other countries admire the workrate, but its also true that its not the fabled workrate and commitment of the english game that is coming out on top in football at the highest level. Just look at the starting lineup of the top sides in the league for evidence of that.

I don't say we always have to play the same way, although maybe Bobby will have us like that with some variations.

What I am basically saying is that Naismiths touch and passing are relatively woeful a lot of the time and we shouldnt have a player like that in our first team apart from when he is one of very few options. Going forward our first team strikers/attackers and the back up options should at least be able to trap a ball decently as over the course of a season relying on a Naismith will cost you although you will see his worth and enjoy his commitment in certain moments in games.

Having said that Lukaku needs to work on control more than anything, and I don't think Kev is exactly top dog with his first touch either.

 

[Brennan]

Thing is mate, people like the Italians and the Spannish respect the battling British style and accept that it has it's merits. You should read "Inverting The Pyramid". All footballing cultures admire the qualities they don't have

Flexibility is key to success and sometimes effort and endeavour will defeat pure skill

You can't just say we have to play one way and that a play maker is key because if we ALWAYS play like that the better teams will learn how to nulify it

Sometimes you really need a maurauding Scot to run at defenders and put them on edge

I agree mate, Barcelona have been playing the same way for years and look how nullified their style is..

 

[Ashtonian]

Naismith (to wade in on the discussion lol) is the type of player i will always want in my everton squad. He doesn't sulk, he doesn't demand some major role in the team and he doesn't think he is better than what he is. He gets his chance and hopefully ala Swansea he takes it. Sure he is an average player on the grand scheme of things but he was free so perfectly good value for money. Thankfully Martinez has only taken a few months to click on where he is better played so as third choice striker / midfielder he is pretty useful to have at the club.

 

[bicycleheader]

Well I submit that you stick any limited ability championship/SPL workhorse attacker into a very good PL side and they will show some worth and will score a couple, but ideally you'd prefer to have your workhorse player to have a higher technical ability.

I don't like comparing who would and wouldn't get into the other top 6 teams squads but in fairness if Moyes hadn't picked him up for free in what was a one-off situation then I don't think he'd have been looked at by the majority of PL teams let alone those teams above us. For every battling run to win possession he shouldn't, theres a poor piece of control where you're left wondering how is he playing anywhere near the top flight. Reminds me of all those years watching Kilbane for Ireland..

Anyway sounds like I'm bashing Naisy, I'm not, I love his attitude and wish it was as prevalent in football as it was 20 years ago, but I'd hope to not see him even on the bench next season but only because we have gotten in better options.

...and we are all totally off topic here i think..

 

[bicycleheader]

I agree mate, Barcelona have been playing the same way for years and look how nullified their style is..

Not sure if you are being your usual sarcasmic self Brennan but a lot of people do actually say it is nullified but I honestly don't think so, its just not played at anywhere near the same level as under the first 3 years of Pep. Passing is slower and they don't play risky passes into the final third anymore. Plus many key players are just not at the same level.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I agree mate, Barcelona have been playing the same way for years and look how nullified their style is..

Yeah, I mean it's not like they've lost 7-0 on aggregate to a team that completely shut them down both home and away in the past year is it?

 

[Brennan]

Yeah, I mean it's not like they've lost 7-0 on aggregate to a team that completely shut them down both home and away in the past year is it?

How many times have they lost in the past two years Mikey.

Bayern didn't 'nullify' their style, they just played in exactly the same way as they did against every other team.