Current Affairs Bethnal Green Three

[Jebus_lives]

Consistency from me on this issue. He's another louse who should languish in abject squalor.
What I find offensive in this case is the trivialisation of the horrors by bringing into play Doctor Who.
As I forecast earlier this whole matters are being turned into a soap opera.

He claims he was providing Humanitarian Aid, which if correct, might give you an idea why he misses his mum and Doctor Who.

 

[Seanjd]

Yes it is, the victims that we have a responsibility to look after. Of course the Syrian civilians are victims - but of the Assad regime. They are victims of geography and circumstance and aren't anything to do with this topic. The victims of terrorist activity in the UK are victims that our government should be thinking of first and foremost.That isn't xenophobia, it's just a different subject.

I fully understand the UK have an obligation to bring her back as she has citizenship, and if she came back, her child should be taken, she should be interrogated, locked up and segregated.



I've been to Tenerife, I can believe it.



I'm not talking longer prison sentences, i'm talking tougher prison sentences. This country is ran by snowflakes. But again, that's another topic entirely.

Rehabilitation and education is used in prison - yet over half of prisoners re-offend. Re-offending is so high because prison isn't a big enough deterrent. If Shamima Begum was bought back, her prison sentence would largely be chatting to a mental heath professional in a nice quiet room over a cup of coffee. We need to set the tone for wannabe terrorists in the UK, show them that we take a hard stance on defectors - you don't get a second chance. Some things just aren't worth the risk.

How about if she comes back, spends her 2 years in prison being 'rehabilitated' then drives a car through a Bus Stop full of people after being released. Does she get a third chance? We don't know her true intentions, and i'd rather keep it that way.

I think our energy would be better spent trying to figure out exactly why children would leave our country to join ISIS and implementing early intervention to stop that from happening.

There is no doubt Begum was brainwashed. It seems she still is to some extent or wouldn’t be saying some of the things she has. Again, I doubt that, as a 15 year old, the thought of a ‘tougher’ prison sentence would have deterred her or anybody else in a similar situation from doing what she did. There or other factors which should be dealt with before that.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Yes it is, the victims that we have a responsibility to look after. Of course the Syrian civilians are victims - but of the Assad regime. They are victims of geography and circumstance and aren't anything to do with this topic. The victims of terrorist activity in the UK are victims that our government should be thinking of first and foremost.That isn't xenophobia, it's just a different subject.

I fully understand the UK have an obligation to bring her back as she has citizenship, and if she came back, her child should be taken, she should be interrogated, locked up and segregated.



I've been to Tenerife, I can believe it.



I'm not talking longer prison sentences, i'm talking tougher prison sentences. This country is ran by snowflakes. But again, that's another topic entirely.

Rehabilitation and education is used in prison - yet over half of prisoners re-offend. Re-offending is so high because prison isn't a big enough deterrent. If Shamima Begum was bought back, her prison sentence would largely be chatting to a mental heath professional in a nice quiet room over a cup of coffee. We need to set the tone for wannabe terrorists in the UK, show them that we take a hard stance on defectors - you don't get a second chance. Some things just aren't worth the risk.

How about if she comes back, spends her 2 years in prison being 'rehabilitated' then drives a car through a Bus Stop full of people after being released. Does she get a third chance? We don't know her true intentions, and i'd rather keep it that way.

Can you name a country where you think this is implemented wel, though?

It’s commonly accepted that the US has longer sentences and harsher conditions but it is purely retribution over rehabilitation or deterrence, as their reoffending figures show.

 

[Harryflashman]

From reports This jihadj jack character apparently does have dual citizenship ,Canadian and British, not that citizenship may be available to him like the situation with Begum. Also it would appear that this individual as a bloke is unlikely to be able to use the excuse he was just a ‘housewife’ or merely tacit supporter of the regime and is significantly more likely to have been an actual jihadi and he’s also been in a Kurdish prison for two years despite and I believe his parents have actual been arrested for sending money that could be used to support terrorism so again unlike Begum I’d say less of a debate about the parents responsibility . Despite all this begun has had her citizenship stripped but letts hasn’t , seems like something of a contradiction to me I’ll be honest .

Im Not excusing nor minimising Begum she deserves punishment and I hope she gets it but the response does seem different and frankly I’m wondering if the social response will be same because it’s nowhere near so far .

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

From reports This jihadj jack character apparently does have dual citizenship ,Canadian and British, not that citizenship may be available to him like the situation with Begum. Also it would appear that this individual as a bloke is unlikely to be able to use the excuse he was just a ‘housewife’ or merely tacit supporter of the regime and is significantly more likely to have been an actual jihadi and he’s also been in a Kurdish prison for two years despite and I believe his parents have actual been arrested for sending money that could be used to support terrorism so again unlike Begum I’d say less of a debate about the parents responsibility . Despite all this begun has had her citizenship stripped but letts hasn’t , seems like something of a contradiction to me I’ll be honest .

Im Not excusing nor minimising Begum she deserves punishment and I hope she gets it but the response does seem different and frankly I’m wondering if the social response will be same because it’s nowhere near so far .

He's in a prison with no clear date of release as far as i can see. If he was in a refugee camp planning to return i think the push to not have him return would be more urgent. Right now he's exactly where he should be.

 

[Harryflashman]

He's in a prison with no clear date of release as far as i can see. If he was in a refugee camp planning to return i think the push to not have him return would be more urgent. Right now he's exactly where he should be.

No argument but why not strip his citizenship ? I may be wrong but I don’t believe he’s been charged he’s detained on suspicion, so do we wait until he says he wants to come home like today to act . Like we did with Begum is our policy react to media interviews ? If our policy is to prevent the return of those that support the caliphate by stripping dual nationals then why hasn’t it been done . I’ve said repeatedly if it’s legal I’ve no problem with it and in his case it would seem to be almost a formality . Yet it hasn’t been done .

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

No argument but why not strip his citizenship ? I may be wrong but I don’t believe he’s been charged he’s detained on suspicion, so do we wait until he says he wants to come home like today to act . Like we did with Begum is our policy react to media interviews ? If our policy is to prevent the return of those that support the caliphate by stripping dual nationals then why hasn’t it been done . I’ve said repeatedly if it’s legal I’ve no problem with it and in his case it would seem to be almost a formality . Yet it hasn’t been done .

It's a good question to which the Government should have to answer.

Few theories:

Media interest in the girl

I believe you need to be below a certain age to claim Bangladeshi hereditary citizenship automatically and the HS may have been looking to steal a march.

BTS conversations with Canada may have already taken place and a stance agreed but not publicised.

Either way the lack of transparency and consistency is something that needs to be addressed.

 

[Harryflashman]

It's a good question to which the Government should have to answer.

Few theories:

Media interest in the girl

I believe you need to be below a certain age to claim Bangladeshi hereditary citizenship automatically and the HS may have been looking to steal a march.

BTS conversations with Canada may have already taken place and a stance agreed but not publicised.

Either way the lack of transparency and consistency is something that needs to be addressed.

I think it’s perhaps because we don’t particularly care about dumping a problem on Bangladesh as there is little comeback but the situation with Canada as a major ally is probably very different . However the message is sends is as important as the action itself , sometimes it’s about how things look and if certain people feel race plays a part in the Begum decision , I don’t really believe it has , this panders to it I’m afraid .

If the home office were looking to steal a march they could have done a year ago , they reacted because of an interview and the media and public reaction to it . It’s government by soundbite and it’s dangerous . All of this should be done is a measured controlled manner not for javid’s leadership credentials or to placate a right outraged public .

I do think race may play a part on social media and some of those who are pushing the story but that’s a different matter . Let’s be candid if Begum’s parent/s were on bail for sending money , the alleged offence being sending money fund terrorism there would be a massive social media and very possible mainstream media response about it and there hasn’t been with the letts family .

@Diogenes the Cynic - I edited that after you liked it adding a paragraph so I hope I didn’t change the crux of it .

 

[Barnfred 55]

My initial view was to leave her over there and let her rot. However my opinion has now changed and she should be brought home to face charges

If she was of Middle Eastern nationality for example and had been involved in, or incited, terrorism in the U.K. we would look to deport her and allow those authorities to deal with her. It’s unfair as a global leader to allow other countries to deal with a problem that was of our failure

This is a very devisive subject and everyone will have their own take on it.

Is the bold bit true though Chris?. If she was say Algerian and involved in terrorist activities here, I'd have thought we would have wanted to prosecute her ourselves. I agree we would look to deport her once she had served her sentence.

In this case though we can't rely on Syria to prosecute her as it is a broken country so I suppose we should be taking responsibility. I don't think I'd go as far as sending somebody over to bring her back, but if her family raised the funds for her to come back of her own accord, then she should be arrested on entry and whatever crimes she has committed investigated.

I think the Home Secretary cancelling her citizenship is pure political posturing. He knows that the public opinion is quite heavily stacked against her and wants to be seen to be doing something, but legally I think he's wrong and the tax payer will have to suffer the cost of having it overturned in the courts.

 

[Harryflashman]

In this case though we can't rely on Syria to prosecute her as it is a broken country so I suppose we should be taking responsibility. I don't think I'd go as far as sending somebody over to bring her back, but if her family raised the funds for her to come back of her own accord, then she should be arrested on entry and whatever crimes she has committed investigated.

I think the Home Secretary cancelling her citizenship is pure political posturing. He knows that the public opinion is quite heavily stacked against her and wants to be seen to be doing something, but legally I think he's wrong and the tax payer will have to suffer the cost of having it overturned in the courts.

Excellent post mate

 

[nsno-chris]

Is the bold bit true though Chris?. If she was say Algerian and involved in terrorist activities here, I'd have thought we would have wanted to prosecute her ourselves. I agree we would look to deport her once she had served her sentence

In 2016 the Home Secretary tried to deport 6 men to Algeria as they had links to Al Qaeda. The decision was overturned by judges bevy they could not receive guarantees that they would not be subject to torture.

So yes, I believe we would

 

[Diogenes the Cynic]

I think it’s perhaps because we don’t particularly care about dumping a problem on Bangladesh as there is little comeback but the situation with Canada as a major ally is probably very different . However the message is sends is as important as the action itself , sometimes it’s about how things look and if certain people feel race plays a part in the Begum decision , I don’t really believe it has , this panders to it I’m afraid .

If the home office were looking to steal a march they could have done a year ago , they reacted because of an interview and the media and public reaction to it . It’s government by soundbite and it’s dangerous . All of this should be done is a measured controlled manner not for javid’s leadership credentials or to placate a right outraged public .

I do think race may play a part on social media and some of those who are pushing the story but that’s a different matter . Let’s be candid if Begum’s parent/s were on bail for sending money , the alleged offence being sending money fund terrorism there would be a massive social media and very possible mainstream media response about it and there hasn’t been with the letts family .

@Diogenes the Cynic - I edited that after you liked it adding a paragraph so I hope I didn’t change the crux of it .

Haha nope i still broadly agree. I'd like to think the UK government have a coherant and consistent approach to this situation and others but I think that is wishful thinking and this will fail on appeal anyway.

The HS has already admitted the child is a British citizen, i bet he is kicking himself he didn't remove her citizenship before the birth to be honest. No chance he won't let a Mother be reunited with her child if the family bring the baby here, what support he has for his hard stance would evaporate in the face of constant baby filled articles and interviews.

I agree the HS was completely reactive and when i said stealing a march i meant over the Bangladeshi immigration hoping to remove citizenship before they stated they would deny it. Either way it's disrespectful to that country and very dubious from a legal standpoint i imagine.

 

[Jebus_lives]

No argument but why not strip his citizenship ? I may be wrong but I don’t believe he’s been charged he’s detained on suspicion, so do we wait until he says he wants to come home like today to act . Like we did with Begum is our policy react to media interviews ? If our policy is to prevent the return of those that support the caliphate by stripping dual nationals then why hasn’t it been done . I’ve said repeatedly if it’s legal I’ve no problem with it and in his case it would seem to be almost a formality . Yet it hasn’t been done .

Have you seen what he's been charged with?

 

[Barnfred 55]

In 2016 the Home Secretary tried to deport 6 men to Algeria as they had links to Al Qaeda. The decision was overturned by judges bevy they could not receive guarantees that they would not be subject to torture.

So yes, I believe we would

Had they actually committed a crime here though.? If they had I believe we would want to prosecute them ourselves. Having links to Al Qaeda makes them undesirables (not sure if that's even a word) and would involve our security services having to monitor them, so I'm not surprised we were looking to deport them.

 

[Harryflashman]

Have you seen what he's been charged with?

To be fair I wasn’t sure he’d actually been charged with being a member of IS , some reports said he had and some said he hadn’t . So I’m not sure mate , if you’ve got a bit more detail then great . I think understandably things aren’t always totally clear over there .