Current Affairs Bethnal Green Three

[longers]

In my opinion, she's made her bed... She can lie in it. She wants to come back so her child can have a better life, what about the lives of the families destroyed by her beloved ISIS?

It's about time we put victims first.

You mean the Syrians ? So we put them first by making her stay in their country even though she is British ? Putting victims first would be deporting her back to the UK.

 

[dead_soft]

Unfortunately I'm aware of that mate. However some crimes transcend what the punishment given is.

Do you think Venables and Thompson deserved just 8 years? Do you think the boy who killed Alesha MacPhail will get a punishment befitting his crime? ISIS as an organisation have butchered, raped and maimed - killing over 2000 people in the process, this IMO transcends what our justice system has the capability of catering for.

I don’t get what you’re saying here - that you think we should give punishments outside of law if we reckon they’re dead bad people? Or just that we don’t have a 100% perfect justice system?

 

[d34noj]

I don’t get what you’re saying here - that you think we should give punishments outside of law if we reckon they’re dead bad people? Or just that we don’t have a 100% perfect justice system?

The 'justice' system doesn't adequately punish offenders as far as I'm concerned mate, I'm not talking about vigilante justice, I mean tougher sentences for offenders, and REALLY tough sentences for the worst offenders.

 

[d34noj]

You mean the Syrians ? So we put them first by making her stay in their country even though she is British ? Putting victims first would be deporting her back to the UK.

Syrian civilians maybe - Assad are complicit in making ISIS what it was, and even funded it by buying its oil. She's welcome to stay there.

 

[dead_soft]

The 'justice' system doesn't adequately punish offenders as far as I'm concerned mate, I'm not talking about vigilante justice, I mean tougher sentences for offenders, and REALLY tough sentences for the worst offenders.

What do you mean by tougher?
And why? Tougher sentences are not proven to reduce crime, they cost the state more, they don’t help rehabilitate. Why are you keen on them?

 

[d34noj]

What do you mean by tougher?
And why? Tougher sentences are not proven to reduce crime, they cost the state more, they don’t help rehabilitate. Why are you keen on them?

As an example, my cousin ran a man over on a bicycle, when he was high on heroin driving his 4x4. The man died, my cousin just drove off - got caught and got 6 years in prison. Served 3, with the last year in an open prison.

He had everything he could wish for and likened the open prison to a holiday. All of that for killing a man and ruining an entire family, swapped for a 1000 days in prison.

Our judicial system is a joke, there's no deterrent to commit crime. 60% of prisoners sentenced to less than a year reoffend, and 48% of all offenders reoffend so prison as a punishment and rehabilitation is a load of rubbish.

 

[dead_soft]

As an example, my cousin ran a man over on a bicycle, when he was high on heroin driving his 4x4. The man died, my cousin just drove off - got caught and got 6 years in prison. Served 3, with the last year in an open prison.

He had everything he could wish for and likened the open prison to a holiday. All of that for killing a man and ruining an entire family, swapped for a 1000 days in prison.

Our judicial system is a joke, there's no deterrent to commit crime. 60% of prisoners sentenced to less than a year reoffend, and 48% of all offenders reoffend so prison as a punishment and rehabilitation is a load of rubbish.

Most people don’t compare prisons, open or not, to a holiday so your anecdote is fairly meaningless.
Those stats don’t change much when more punitive sentences are handed down. Education and access to opportunity have much bigger effects. So why not push for this over harsher sentences? Why would you rather remove people from society if not that you feel retribution is the main aim of a justice system?

 

[dead_soft]

Syrian civilians maybe - Assad are complicit in making ISIS what it was, and even funded it by buying its oil. She's welcome to stay there.

So it isn’t the victims you care about?

 

[bring the ghost on]

He had everything he could wish for and likened the open prison to a holiday. All of that for killing a man and ruining an entire family, swapped for a 1000 days in prison.

Exactly like Tenerife from what I've heard mate.

 

[Seanjd]

As an example, my cousin ran a man over on a bicycle, when he was high on heroin driving his 4x4. The man died, my cousin just drove off - got caught and got 6 years in prison. Served 3, with the last year in an open prison.

He had everything he could wish for and likened the open prison to a holiday. All of that for killing a man and ruining an entire family, swapped for a 1000 days in prison.

Our judicial system is a joke, there's no deterrent to commit crime. 60% of prisoners sentenced to less than a year reoffend, and 48% of all offenders reoffend so prison as a punishment and rehabilitation is a load of rubbish.

I doubt your cousin was weighing up whether 3 years prison would be worth getting high and running somebody over for.

Longer prison sentences as a deterrent is a myth. Reoffending is so high because prison is meaningless is the bigger picture of offenders’ backgrounds, mental health and social difficulties. Rehabilitation and education is key, along with battling poverty and making people feel like they belong to something meaningful.

 

[Seanjd]

I actually think a lot of that is well written and I can see the view behind it, even though I come to a different conclusion.

It's made me appreciate how manipulative the grooming can be. But then @d34noj's post on the next page sums up how I feel in that some people don't deserve a 2nd chance. I've always been of the opinion that everyone deserves a second chance up to a point. If you cross a line then there is no way back and I think this is one of those cases. Accept others will disagree, but that's the way I see it.

And when I say a 2nd chance I have no issue with her being properly questioned within the law if she gets back to the UK, but I could never "forgive" someone like her who chose the path she chose. It's absolutely disgusting the cult she went and joined and how they treat other people which she supported in to adulthood.

After she had been brainwashed and fled the country to join as a child, I don’t think she had a choice as to whether to support it into adulthood or not did she?

 

[nsno-chris]

My initial view was to leave her over there and let her rot. However my opinion has now changed and she should be brought home to face charges

If she was of Middle Eastern nationality for example and had been involved in, or incited, terrorism in the U.K. we would look to deport her and allow those authorities to deal with her. It’s unfair as a global leader to allow other countries to deal with a problem that was of our failure

This is a very devisive subject and everyone will have their own take on it.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Blaming?!
Just explaining why I bought her ethnicity into it.

So far the fevered response against Jack is somewhat muted. Wonder why, have keyboard warriors gone all liberal.
Being male in the ISIS world he would most definitely been doing men's work like the killing and head chopping.

'Jihadi Jack' interview: Homesick Jack Letts tells ITV News he wants to return from Syria but 'no one cares' about him

The Briton known as Jihadi Jack has exclusively told ITV News he wants to come home after being held for two years in a Kurdish prison - but doubts the UK will move to bring him back. Oxford-born Jack Letts, who was nicknamed Jihadi Jack by media after running away to Syria in 2014, said he was...

www.itv.com

 

[tommytowne]

So far the fevered response against Jack is somewhat muted. Wonder why, have keyboard warriors gone all liberal.
Being male in the ISIS world he would most definitely been doing men's work like the killing and head chopping.

'Jihadi Jack' interview: Homesick Jack Letts tells ITV News he wants to return from Syria but 'no one cares' about him

The Briton known as Jihadi Jack has exclusively told ITV News he wants to come home after being held for two years in a Kurdish prison - but doubts the UK will move to bring him back. Oxford-born Jack Letts, who was nicknamed Jihadi Jack by media after running away to Syria in 2014, said he was...

www.itv.com

Consistency from me on this issue. He's another louse who should languish in abject squalor.
What I find offensive in this case is the trivialisation of the horrors by bringing into play Doctor Who.
As I forecast earlier this whole matters are being turned into a soap opera.

 

[d34noj]

So it isn’t the victims you care about?

Yes it is, the victims that we have a responsibility to look after. Of course the Syrian civilians are victims - but of the Assad regime. They are victims of geography and circumstance and aren't anything to do with this topic. The victims of terrorist activity in the UK are victims that our government should be thinking of first and foremost.That isn't xenophobia, it's just a different subject.

I fully understand the UK have an obligation to bring her back as she has citizenship, and if she came back, her child should be taken, she should be interrogated, locked up and segregated.

Exactly like Tenerife from what I've heard mate.

I've been to Tenerife, I can believe it.

I doubt your cousin was weighing up whether 3 years prison would be worth getting high and running somebody over for.

Longer prison sentences as a deterrent is a myth. Reoffending is so high because prison is meaningless is the bigger picture of offenders’ backgrounds, mental health and social difficulties. Rehabilitation and education is key, along with battling poverty and making people feel like they belong to something meaningful.

I'm not talking longer prison sentences, i'm talking tougher prison sentences. This country is ran by snowflakes. But again, that's another topic entirely.

Rehabilitation and education is used in prison - yet over half of prisoners re-offend. Re-offending is so high because prison isn't a big enough deterrent. If Shamima Begum was bought back, her prison sentence would largely be chatting to a mental heath professional in a nice quiet room over a cup of coffee. We need to set the tone for wannabe terrorists in the UK, show them that we take a hard stance on defectors - you don't get a second chance. Some things just aren't worth the risk.

How about if she comes back, spends her 2 years in prison being 'rehabilitated' then drives a car through a Bus Stop full of people after being released. Does she get a third chance? We don't know her true intentions, and i'd rather keep it that way.