Current Affairs Are the Tories unfairly maligned?

[Gwladysstreetlad]

I think the brutal clampdown on the disabled benefits in this country tell you all you need to know

As sombody who works with disabled adults and has a severely disabled brother I can tell you from first hand experience that things were crap under Labour for the disabled to mate. The "support" my brother has received under both Labour and Tory governments have been practically non existent. We as a society have treated the disabled disgracefully for decades, this is not somthing exclusive to the Conservatives.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Not at all. My work involves a lot of dealings with politicians. Tories are a difficult breed in which to see any good.

There’s the problem - you’re not judging based on your dealings with ordinary people who vote Tory, you’re judging based on your dealing with politicians.

You might as well just write off all of humanity if you’re making judgments based on the conduct and personality of politicians (of any persuasion).

 

[Alan Whittle]

Sake.
Like I remember what that is ffs.

Break out the Scrumpy?

 

[roydo]

Break out the Scrumpy?

Not since I got wellied on it at 15 mate.

 

[Alan Whittle]

Not since I got wellied on it at 15 mate.

It's only 17.55 now mate..

 

[Prevenger17]

As sombody who works with disabled adults and has a severely disabled brother I can tell you from first hand experience that things were crap under Labour for the disabled to mate. The "support" my brother has received under both Labour and Tory governments have been practically non existent. We as a society have treated the disabled disgracefully for decades, this is not somthing exclusive to the Conservatives.

Aye, I always get the impression that this particular stick Conservatives are beaten with is more of a Labour marketing tool than any real representation of the relative impact of either party's actual policy on the disabled

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Breed?




@tsubaki is normally a very good poster, but here he hasn't given us a historical run-down, he gave us his (very) short analysis on hand-picked issues over the last 200 years which he feels the Tory party got wrong.

Agree that the party are well-organised, that's a good thing no? Also agree they benefit from donations, that's sadly the name of the game here and elsewhere, because capitalism is the dominant force of the age, for better or worse. We Westerners seem to be be doing alright out of it anyway.

And which "worst common denominator in the working classes" are you referring to? Are you also implying the working classes are too stupid to make up their own mind about things? Because that's often the implication when that old chestnut gets rolled out.

Okay let's go with the word "species" then!

For decades Tories have been wheeling out the blue rinse brigade to pad out their voting numbers. The fact that the big businesses that benefit from the Tories are funding all this makes it even worse.

Worst common denominator - I mean playing to an individual's own sense of greed. Bemoaning the "benefit scroungers" to cut welfare to the bone. As already stated they push the "I'm alright Jack" mantra to the very max. It's frankly disgusting. I think a society can only be judged on how it cares for the weakest amongst its midst.

There’s the problem - you’re not judging based on your dealings with ordinary people who vote Tory, you’re judging based on your dealing with politicians.

You might as well just write off all of humanity if you’re making judgments based on the conduct and personality of politicians (of any persuasion).

No not at all- I work with Labour politicians and they are better. Hands down. I work in a very corporate/capitalist sector so it's not as if I'm actually engaging with the more Labour friendly subjects such as child welfare or affordable housing.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Both tories and labour abandoned the working classes 30 years ago to push globalist, London centric agendas.

Things don't change under either party. Both should be equally maligned and tribal party politics, especially the aggression of the current labour movement, is not healthy.

 

[roydo]

Both tories and labour abandoned the working classes 30 years ago to push globalist, London centric agendas.

Things don't change under either party. Both should be equally maligned and tribal party politics, especially the aggression of the current labour movement, is not healthy.

Begs the question, what, exactly, are or is the Working Class in this day and age? Certainly not the type of workers that the Trade Unions and by extension, the Labour Party were created to represent.

 

[dholliday]

Begs the question, what, exactly, are or is the Working Class in this day and age? Certainly not the type of workers that the Trade Unions and by extension, the Labour Party were created to represent.

I'd say it's anyone under the national average wage and not in secure long-term employment, so all those temp workers on less than 1500 net a month, that's already loads of folk (I was one back when I lived in England). The type of work is irrelevant now as so much of it is 'white-collar' office grind, just not very well-paid or secure. Include also all those who work in retail, in factories, and many other industries.

 

[roydo]

I'd say it's anyone under the national average wage and not in secure long-term employment, so all those temp workers on less than 1500 net a month, that's already loads of folk (I was one back when I lived in England). The type of work is irrelevant now as so much of it is 'white-collar' office grind, just not very well-paid or secure. Include also all those who work in retail, in factories, and many other industries.

My thoughts as well. Thing is, in this day and age, an awful lot of those jobs are also lifestyle choices; like part time fitting round school runs/elderly parents, "pin" money for a housewife, holiday/seasonal jobs for students, semi retired topping up a pension, opt outs of previous high paid jobs cos they can, (me), east europeans doing all sorts for hard cash, (delivery drivers mainly/me).

Point is, its not a collegiate body that it once was.

Like, that decision to make Uber drivers employed, (are they yet? dunno), most delivery drivers who have a similar working relationship with their "employer", would hate to be an actual employee.

And my cursor is blinking in time to Highway to Hell ffs.

 

[dholliday]

My thoughts as well. Thing is, in this day and age, an awful lot of those jobs are also lifestyle choices; like part time fitting round school runs/elderly parents, "pin" money for a housewife, holiday/seasonal jobs for students, semi retired topping up a pension, opt outs of previous high paid jobs cos they can, (me), east europeans doing all sorts for hard cash, (delivery drivers mainly/me).

Point is, its not a collegiate body that it once was.

Like, that decision to make Uber drivers employed, (are they yet? dunno), most delivery drivers who have a similar working relationship with their "employer", would hate to be an actual employee.

And my cursor is blinking in time to Highway to Hell ffs.

Slayer > AC/DC

I wouldn't class the lifestyle workers among the working class, I'd use having to have all these three definitions:

- less than 1500 net working a full-time job (at least 35 hours a week), or if we wanna stagger it based on median rents: something like less than 1500 if in the South, and less than 1200 if in the North (and less than 3 sheep if in Wales).
- job is of a temp nature, so no secure long-term employment or career prospects
- and is not a lifestyle choice, so the person is working this job to pay the rent/feed the family

Or maybe just this: the Working Class is a class of folk who have to work a job, any job, in order to exist.

 

[roydo]

Slayer > AC/DC

Banned

Or maybe just this: the Working Class is a class of folk who have to work a job, any job, in order to exist.

So everyone but the Queen then.

 

[dholliday]

Banned

was bound to happen

So everyone but the Queen then.

Nah, I liked your point about lifestyle choice, so deffo not them (and not me either nowadays). But those who have to work a full-time job which they effectively didn't choose (i.e. when a Temp Agency assigns you somewhere) or didn't want (most office/callcentre grind jobs are pretty soul-destroying) so that they can exist, where payday can't come quick enough and all that. Where there's zero job security or career/wage-rise prospects, and where you're not close to the National Average Salary.

Still a fair few million heads, and it's not all depressing. A lot of people are content with the routine of 5-days-a-week then chill or socialise the rest of the time. And I bet at least half of them who vote - if they can be arsed to vote - are blue (in the political sense). And they vote Tory not because Boris has appealed to their 'worst common denominator', but because they may fear worse job/economical prospects under a Labour government, for example by way of Labour being more pro-immigration, which creates more competition for working class jobs. It's a valid reason to vote Tory just as a valid reason to vote Labour is...ähm...what is a valid reason to vote Labour again?

 

[Boss_Blue]

Depising the Tories on the internet is one thing, but in reality half of the electorate are voting for them (broadly speaking, perhaps not in L8). So the Tories are subhuman scumbags commentary that you see here and elsewhere is not to be taken seriously. I pity the fool who actually despises 50 percent of people they pass on the street, but most grownups aren't like that.

I despise a far higher percentage than that.