Current Affairs Are the Tories unfairly maligned?

[bring the ghost on]

There is nothing wrong with being right-of-centre in your beliefs, but the problem is that the Tory party is a broad church and includes in its ranks a lot of very, very privileged people who want to maintain their privileged position.

Unfortunately, some of those people have a lot of power and influence in the party and you can easily see how this has manifested itself over the years with their stances/policies on employment rights, benefits, legal aid, human rights etc.

 

[tsubaki]

The only thing the Tories have ever been good at is perpetuating themselves. If you look at a history of the decisions they have taken down the years, its much more difficult to find one they have got right than one they have got wrong.

Corn Laws - wrong (They wanted to keep cheap foreign food out because of the potential loss to themselves)
Voting reforms - wrong (opposed at every turn, including the poor and women)
Home Rule in Ireland - wrong (all attempts at reform opposed needlessly until violence was the only option)
the Empire - wrong (they expanded it in useless places, and brought about needlessly racist legislation in other bits that helped to lose India)
House of Lords reform - wrong (opposed because they didn't control the House of Commons)
Appeasement - wrong (official Tory policy and ruthlessly enforced even into mid-1940)
Suez - wrong (on many levels - it was a bad idea, implemented badly, and it almost wrecked our economy)
North Sea Oil - wrong (the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth fund, set up with their oil money, has one trillion dollars in assets. With our oil money we have one point five trillion dollars of debt.)
PFI - wrong (though Blair / Brown expanded their use, it was a Tory invention)
Railway Privatization - wrong (as initially designed it made fortunes and killed dozens)
Austerity - wrong (the cuts were in places that didn't save money, the waste continues to this day)
Brexit - wrong (though in their defence its nearly a year in now and they dont actually have a policy)

The fact that Corbyn disagrees with almost every aspect of Tory policy is perhaps the biggest reason as to why people should vote for him.

 

[DanEFC92]

LOL no.

 

[Charlie Sweet]

The only thing the Tories have ever been good at is perpetuating themselves. If you look at a history of the decisions they have taken down the years, its much more difficult to find one they have got right than one they have got wrong.

Corn Laws - wrong (They wanted to keep cheap foreign food out because of the potential loss to themselves)
Voting reforms - wrong (opposed at every turn, including the poor and women)
Home Rule in Ireland - wrong (all attempts at reform opposed needlessly until violence was the only option)
the Empire - wrong (they expanded it in useless places, and brought about needlessly racist legislation in other bits that helped to lose India)
House of Lords reform - wrong (opposed because they didn't control the House of Commons)
Appeasement - wrong (official Tory policy and ruthlessly enforced even into mid-1940)
Suez - wrong (on many levels - it was a bad idea, implemented badly, and it almost wrecked our economy)
North Sea Oil - wrong (the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth fund, set up with their oil money, has one trillion dollars in assets. With our oil money we have one point five trillion dollars of debt.)
PFI - wrong (though Blair / Brown expanded their use, it was a Tory invention)
Railway Privatization - wrong (as initially designed it made fortunes and killed dozens)
Austerity - wrong (the cuts were in places that didn't save money, the waste continues to this day)
Brexit - wrong (though in their defence its nearly a year in now and they dont actually have a policy)

The fact that Corbyn disagrees with almost every aspect of Tory policy is perhaps the biggest reason as to why people should vote for him.

stop the music. put the lights on. ladies and gentlemen we already have our winner for post of the year 2018.

 

[dholliday]

The only thing the Tories have ever been good at is perpetuating themselves. If you look at a history of the decisions they have taken down the years, its much more difficult to find one they have got right than one they have got wrong.

Corn Laws - wrong (They wanted to keep cheap foreign food out because of the potential loss to themselves)
Voting reforms - wrong (opposed at every turn, including the poor and women)
Home Rule in Ireland - wrong (all attempts at reform opposed needlessly until violence was the only option)
the Empire - wrong (they expanded it in useless places, and brought about needlessly racist legislation in other bits that helped to lose India)
House of Lords reform - wrong (opposed because they didn't control the House of Commons)
Appeasement - wrong (official Tory policy and ruthlessly enforced even into mid-1940)
Suez - wrong (on many levels - it was a bad idea, implemented badly, and it almost wrecked our economy)
North Sea Oil - wrong (the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth fund, set up with their oil money, has one trillion dollars in assets. With our oil money we have one point five trillion dollars of debt.)
PFI - wrong (though Blair / Brown expanded their use, it was a Tory invention)
Railway Privatization - wrong (as initially designed it made fortunes and killed dozens)
Austerity - wrong (the cuts were in places that didn't save money, the waste continues to this day)
Brexit - wrong (though in their defence its nearly a year in now and they dont actually have a policy)

The fact that Corbyn disagrees with almost every aspect of Tory policy is perhaps the biggest reason as to why people should vote for him.

Iraq invasion & the dodgy dossier
giving Mandelson so much influence
Millennium Dome
"a good day to bury bad news"
"she's a bigot"

and many more if I care to refresh my memory. Then there's all that's wrong with your comments. Rail privatisation killed dozens? That's your agenda talking. Did rail accidents never happen before privatisation? Austerity didn't save money? The public sector pay freeze has saved a over a billion pounds. Brexit wrong? That's just your opinion, there are just as many (or rather 52% to your 48%) who believe it is the right decision. I could go throught the rest but Corn Laws? Really? That's something from almost 200 years ago. Slavery was wrong too, you know.

 

[dholliday]

There is nothing wrong with being right-of-centre in your beliefs, but the problem is that the Tory party is a broad church and includes in its ranks a lot of very, very privileged people who want to maintain their privileged position.

Unfortunately, some of those people have a lot of power and influence in the party and you can easily see how this has manifested itself over the years with their stances/policies on employment rights, benefits, legal aid, human rights etc.

good post and agreed.

 

[dholliday]

I'm talking about when both parties are extreme left and right, as they are now due to Corbyn and Brexit respectively. When both parties move a bit to the centre, they both benefit from it - but they're too blind/stupid/disinterested/self-serving to see it.

Corbyn effectively supported Brexit throughout most of his political career, tho' I get your wider point and agree to a certain extent.

 

[dholliday]

As the old song used to go "I've never met a nice South African" well likewise " I've never met a nice Tory".

Well that's just silly bollocks.

 

[dholliday]

The DNA of the Tory party is to subjugate the working classes.

Unless you're born with a silver spoon the Conservatives are your worst enemy. Sometimes they try and dress it up or spin it another way but leopards never change their spots!

More daft logic, Charlie. The working classes (and nowadays we include the lower-middle classes in this) are the most numerous, and still many of them vote Conservative. The Tory Party aren't like a royal family who rule over everyone without recourse to free elections. They are a freely-elected party who happen to be the dominant force in British governance. And Britain, despite myriad issues here & there, is a pretty decent place to live all things considered.

 

[dholliday]

Depising the Tories on the internet is one thing, but in reality half of the electorate are voting for them (broadly speaking, perhaps not in L8). So the Tories are subhuman scumbags commentary that you see here and elsewhere is not to be taken seriously. I pity the fool who actually despises 50 percent of people they pass on the street, but most grownups aren't like that.

He gets it

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Well that's just silly bollocks.

Not at all. My work involves a lot of dealings with politicians. Tories are a difficult breed in which to see any good. And generally I've not seen it. That's across many councils and government departments. Similarly the old Spitting Image song became an urban truth.

More daft logic, Charlie. The working classes (and nowadays we include the lower-middle classes in this) are the most numerous, and still many of them vote Conservative. The Tory Party aren't like a royal family who rule over everyone without recourse to free elections. They are a freely-elected party who happen to be the dominant force in British governance. And Britain, despite myriad issues here & there, is a pretty decent place to live all things considered.

The Tory party places the promotion of the individual way ahead of the interests of the wider society. A poster far more talented than me as already given you a historical run down. Historcially the Tories have done well in elections by virtue of their well-organised party structure (which has always benefited from huge fat cat donations) and their appeal to the worst common denominator in the working classes.

 

[dholliday]

Not at all. My work involves a lot of dealings with politicians. Tories are a difficult breed in which to see any good. Similarly the old Spitting Image song became an urban truth.

Breed?

The Tory party places the promotion of the individual way ahead of the interests of the wider society. A poster far more talented than me as already given you a historical run down. Historcially the Tories have done well in elections by virtue of their well-organised party structure (which has always benefited from huge fat cat donations) and their appeal to the worst common denominator in the working classes.

@tsubaki is normally a very good poster, but here he hasn't given us a historical run-down, he gave us his (very) short analysis on hand-picked issues over the last 200 years which he feels the Tory party got wrong.

Agree that the party are well-organised, that's a good thing no? Also agree they benefit from donations, that's sadly the name of the game here and elsewhere, because capitalism is the dominant force of the age, for better or worse. We Westerners seem to be be doing alright out of it anyway.

And which "worst common denominator in the working classes" are you referring to? Are you also implying the working classes are too stupid to make up their own mind about things? Because that's often the implication when that old chestnut gets rolled out.

 

[peteblue]

Not at all. My work involves a lot of dealings with politicians. Tories are a difficult breed in which to see any good. And generally I've not seen it. That's across many councils and government departments. Similarly the old Spitting Image song became an urban truth.



The Tory party places the promotion of the individual way ahead of the interests of the wider society. A poster far more talented than me as already given you a historical run down. Historcially the Tories have done well in elections by virtue of their well-organised party structure (which has always benefited from huge fat cat donations) and their appeal to the worst common denominator in the working classes.

And the fact that most people voted for them, or did they not understand what they were voting for, or maybe they were too old, or perhaps stupid, or rich. Perhaps though they just happened to be the more competent of the choices on offer and invariably have to dig the country out of the financial shambles that a Labour Government always leaves........

 

[Chewbacca]

Working class Tories are the very worst.

"I'm alright Jack"

 

[strummer]

I think the brutal clampdown on the disabled benefits in this country tell you all you need to know