Current Affairs Anti-fascists (antifa), and a nationwide resistance of hate.

[dholliday]

Just to confirm, it’s ok to call the lads who go to EDL and FLA marchs and actually get photo’d and video’d doing the Nazi Salutes, Nazis yes?

You can call them that, if you like. You can lawfully disrupt their marches. You can even report them to the police if you feel they're inciting violence. But you can't punch them unless they're presenting a clear immediate threat.

 

[MikeH72]

Just to confirm, it’s ok to call the lads who go to EDL and FLA marchs and actually get photo’d and video’d doing the Nazi Salutes, Nazis yes?

Neo-Nazi oddballs yes. But that isn’t the same thing. 99% of them don’t actually have the first clue about the Nazi party and what they stood for.

 

[Connor]

Neo-Nazi oddballs yes. But that isn’t the same thing. 99% of them don’t actually have the first clue about the Nazi party and what they stood for.

That’s fine Mick.

Just wanted to make sure that we can call the people imitating Nazi actions, Nazi’s.

 

[MikeH72]

That’s fine Mick.

Just wanted to make sure that we can call the people imitating Nazi actions, Nazi’s.

Not really C.

 

[Harryflashman]

You can call them that, if you like. You can lawfully disrupt their marches. You can even report them to the police if you feel they're inciting violence. But you can't punch them unless they're presenting a clear immediate threat.

You can’t , there are lots of people you can’t lawfully punch and that if you punch you’ll face consequences but by the same token like I say there are a number of people I’d had trouble sympathising with should they be struck .

For example you approach a friend of mind and verbally abuse them with viscous, offensive , hateful abuse . Perhaps racist , maybe sexist but brutally offensive nonetheless and causing great distress . Legally whether I’m allowed to hit them or not I’m going to find myself tempted and like many protestors I imagine I’d be prepared to face the consequences if I did .

 

[Connor]

Not really C.

But if you’re imating the actions of someone or something, in a none parodic way, you’re trying to be like them no?

Now, I’m not trying to say that Rob, 47, from Luton is going to do his best to try and wipe out a race of people in a completely horrific and utterly dreadful manner, but more, he’s trying his best to show that he can be like them in a different manner.

That’s what I’m getting at here.

 

[MikeH72]

But if you’re imating the actions of someone or something, in a none parodic way, you’re trying to be like them no?

Now, I’m not trying to say that Rob, 47, from Luton is going to do his best to try and wipe out a race of people in a completely horrific and utterly dreadful manner, but more, he’s trying his best to show that he can be like them in a similar manner.

That’s what I’m getting at here.

If I walked around pretending to be a T-Rex and roaring, pretending to have little tiny arms and stomping everywhere* would you be able to declare that I was a T-Rex?

*I do this regularly

 

[Connor]

If I walked around pretending to be a T-Rex and roaring, pretending to have little tiny arms and stomping everywhere* would you be able to declare that I was a T-Rex?

*I do this regularly

No because you’re doing that in a way of parody. Not in a way of seriousness.

 

[Harryflashman]

If I walked around pretending to be a T-Rex and roaring, pretending to have little tiny arms and stomping everywhere* would you be able to declare that I was a T-Rex?

*I do this regularly

If you started telling people you were a paedophile you might not be but I suspect not many would let you mind their kids .

 

[dholliday]

For example you approach a friend of mind and verbally abuse them with viscous, offensive , hateful abuse . Perhaps racist , maybe sexist but brutally offensive nonetheless and causing great distress .

That sounds quite threatening. There's an argument there as the pre-emptive punch is a self-defence of a feared violent attack.

Each individual case has to be weighed up as to whether a pre-emptive act of violence is justified. There can be no generic rule for this sort of thing.

EDL dickheads chanting England for the English or whatever it is they shout, or American Neo-Nazis doing the salute while heiling Hitler...do they pose an imminent physical threat? What will punching them achieve? It seems to me leaving these idiots alone with their regressive crap is the most effective method of keeping their numbers down. Assaulting them, however, will turn them into martyrs...thus increasing their number.

 

[MikeH72]

No because you’re doing that in a way of parody. Not in a way of seriousness.

EDL edgelords are doing it out of parody as well, usually as an inflammatory reaction to being called a Nazi to try and wind someone up. There is a very very small group of people out there that identify as Neo-Nazi skinheads and genuinely believe in the ideals of the traditional Nazi party, but these aren’t the people Antifa are referring to with “punch a Nazi”. They literally assault wheelchair users and pepper spray elderly people for holding up signs.

 

[dholliday]

No because you’re doing that in a way of parody. Not in a way of seriousness.

When Prince Harry wore a Nazi uniform to a party, was he being serious? Even Richard Spencer doesn't come across as serious. Many of them love the cosplay and bad-martyr role.

 

[Harryflashman]

as I say you can use violence to protect yourself or others under threat of impending assault in a preemptive fashion . I’m suggesting the abuse was horrible and offensive but no threat of violence . Anyway I think you take my point , I’m just saying sometime you can certainly justify taking action , well I can .

 

[dholliday]

as I say you can use violence to protect yourself or others under threat of impending assault in a preemptive fashion . I’m suggesting the abuse was horrible and offensive but no threat of violence . Anyway I think you take my point , I’m just saying sometime you can certainly justify taking action , well I can .

agreed...sometimes, as there's no way of knowing if hostile verbals will turn into physical violence or not. It's a gut instinct, most times.

But clearly not all the time. Very much depending on the individual situation.

 

[longers]

Imagine actually sticking up for Richard Spencer’s right to not get twatted. What a thread this is turning out to be.