Current Affairs Afghanistan

[peteblue]

…

Aye, Trump casually abandoned the Kurds and, while there was outrage at the time, it just got buried amongst his other acts of lunacy. But this is a stain on Biden's presidency without a doubt

This should bury Biden. After 20 years of blood and treasure by many countries, not just America, he has turned a relatively stable country into a complete and utter mess. The Political and strategic damage this will do to the USA and it’s allies will not just go away, and the West’s enemies will be rubbing their hands. I am really struggling to imagine a more stupid action undertaken by an American President.…

 

[wainy]

right, so when you said the reason that no casualties had been suffered was because of US air support and military planning you were talking rubbish?

Where did I say no casualties had been suffered? I said there was a stalemate. And that is a fact. The taliban were not going to retake the country and fight the ANA while they could call on US air, intelligence and ground assets. You said the US suffered hundreds of casualties. They’d suffered nothing of the sort since combat missions ended, so how am I talking rubbish? they were there to deliver training and as a deterrent. Or is it just pure coincidence that they gave up all their airfields, left all their forward bases and equipment, and at that precise moment the taliban make huge gains?

 

[peteblue]

Where did I say no casualties had been suffered? I said there was a stalemate. And that is a fact. The taliban were not going to retake the country and fight the ANA while they could call on US air, intelligence and ground assets. You said the US suffered hundreds of casualties. They’d suffered nothing of the sort since combat missions ended, so how am I talking rubbish? they were there to deliver training and as a deterrent. Or is it just pure coincidence that they gave up all their airfields, left all their forward bases and equipment, and at that precise moment the taliban make huge gains?

Exactly….

 

[longers]

he has turned a relatively stable country into a complete and utter mess

Relatively stable ? They had 27 separate terrorist attacks in a single month last October...


Todays attacks aren't even the worst this year (although that may change with final death toll)

List of 2021 Afghanistan attacks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Granted it may well get worse now but very odd how there is a narrative of it being 'stable' prior to Biden.

 

[peteblue]

Relatively stable ? They had 27 terrorist attacks in a single month last October...


Todays attacks aren't even the worst this year (although that may change with final death toll)

List of 2021 Afghanistan attacks - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Relatively stable for Afghanistan. So you think it will now improve then. I hope the Taliban and Isis keep a religiously accurate record of murders, deaths and atrocities on wiki going forward for comparison…..

 

[longers]

So you think it will now improve then. I hope the Taliban and Isis keep a religiously accurate record of murders, deaths and atrocities on wiki going forward for comparison…..

No, it will probably get worse but it's been a train wreck forever, trying to make out it was relatively stable country pre Biden is ridiculous.

 

[Ruairi77]

Miss the point but ok

ok, what's the point?
How does the fact that there are US troops in S. Korea relate to what's happening now in Afghanistan?

 

[Ruairi77]

Trump screwed up, Biden screwed up even more by not reversing his decision and then masterminding a complete cock up of a withdrawal…..

you could call it 'reversing his decision' or you could call it 'reneging on a deal'.
Trump already battered Americas reputation by reneging on the Iran deal. Biden wasn't about to do the same.
75% of Americans want an end to the war.
Reneging on the agreement would lead to continuing war, in fact it would likely lead to an escalation as Trump had freed taliban leadership and biden would have to instate a new puppet government.
The withdrawal, however, has not been handled well.
Trusting the Taliban for security from ISIS seems like a desperate measure.

 

[peteblue]

No, it will probably get worse but it's been a train wreck forever, trying to make out it was relatively stable country pre Biden is ridiculous.

Life was bad, but tolerable In comparison to twenty years earlier. Millions have grown up being able to do things that was impossible before. Why do you think Afghans are desperate to now get out…..

 

[tsubaki]

Where did I say no casualties had been suffered? I said there was a stalemate. And that is a fact. The taliban were not going to retake the country and fight the ANA while they could call on US air, intelligence and ground assets. You said the US suffered hundreds of casualties. They’d suffered nothing of the sort since combat missions ended, so how am I talking rubbish? they were there to deliver training and as a deterrent. Or is it just pure coincidence that they gave up all their airfields, left all their forward bases and equipment, and at that precise moment the taliban make huge gains?

It wasn't a stalemate, at all - that is why you are talking rubbish. I'd have hoped the past three months would have proved what the Taliban were compared to the ANA (and the former government) and how far they were actually already in control of most of the country. That isn't a stalemate, its one side being vastly superior to the other and waiting for the right moment before doing what they did.

 

[Ruairi77]

Why hadn’t the taliban retaken control of the country then if it was so easy? Take away US backing and they had no chance, just becomes a civil war almost. Hard when the enemy know who your family are. Seems since combat missions ended circa 2012 that deaths haven’t been excessive. Certainly not hundreds of US personnel.
View attachment 137050

I hate all this counting just US lives lost. Thousands of pro gov Afghans were killed in this time. stick them on this chart.

 

[longers]

Life was bad, but tolerable In comparison to twenty years earlier. Millions have grown up being able to do things that was impossible before. Why do you think Afghans are desperate to now get out…..

Not all afghans. The western media won't mention it but there are an awful lot of afghans (particularly in the south of the country) who are quite happy the Taliban are back.

Afghanistan is a weird country, its more like lots of tiny countries all within one border, according to experts there is no strong sense of national pride/identity, its mostly lots of tribes/communities geographically split off from each other with no real communication or bond between them due to the geographical layout of the country.

I think its this video which explains it, but don't have time to re-watch it at the moment to confirm

 

[Ruairi77]

Life was bad, but tolerable In comparison to twenty years earlier. Millions have grown up being able to do things that was impossible before. Why do you think Afghans are desperate to now get out…..

life is better for them now but how do you propose that is maintained?
There is no appetite in America for a never ending war in Afghanistan and nor should there be.

 

[BlueTX]

We are a comfortable, apathetic society obsessed with largely fictional crises and hence we're very, very ill equipped for genuine conflict with real consequence. Our leadership reflects our people. That deficiency is harder to spot in everyday mundane domestic life. It becomes glaring when that leadership is asked to guide us through actual crisis. It's the equivalent of asking humanities professors to win a firefight.

See COVID.

 

[Tubey]

I am a simple sole. With no deep understanding of Afghan politics or tribal stuff.

But not leaving this at POTUS door is sommet I cant get. He made the decision.

Still this. ^

I find the desperate attempts to excuse Biden outright alarming at this point.