Current Affairs Afghanistan

[Shevin Keedy]

Taliban were never going to extend again, was supposed to be May.

I do not really understand: Taliban can say they are sticking to a pre-agreed deal, but was there anything in that deal about their insurgency taking control of the country?

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I do not really understand: Taliban can say they are sticking to a pre-agreed deal, but was there anything in that deal about their insurgency taking control of the country?

It's their country they don't see it as "insurgency" the "infidels" must go!

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

 

[Tubey]

I do not really understand: Taliban can say they are sticking to a pre-agreed deal, but was there anything in that deal about their insurgency taking control of the country?

No, I believe it was the exact opposite actually.

But there is no deal, it's just a unilaterally decided American complete retreat. It didn't need to be - it's all on Biden this. And to be honest, his decision to crack on regardless of the consequences for purely political reasons makes him come across as just as much a monster as Trump was.

 

[Ruairi77]

No, I believe it was the exact opposite actually.

But there is no deal, it's just a unilaterally decided American complete retreat. It didn't need to be - it's all on Biden this. And to be honest, his decision to crack on regardless of the consequences for purely political reasons makes him come across as just as much a monster as Trump was.

the withdrawal has been a mess, but claiming this is all on Biden is daft.

 

[Tubey]

the withdrawal has been a mess, but claiming this is all on Biden is daft.

The withdrawal is all on Biden. You can't point at Trump on this when he's been President eight months and had every chance to stop this.

It's not like he's compelled to finish Trump's wall is it?

 

[tsubaki]

The withdrawal is all on Biden. You can't point at Trump on this when he's been President eight months and had every chance to stop this.

It's not like he's compelled to finish Trump's wall is it?

It isn’t all on Biden; it isn’t even all on Trump (though it was his grubby deal that led to this).

Withdrawal from that agreement without negotiations guaranteed US and Allied casualties, probably quite a lot of them even after they’d ramped the force level back up, and unlimited further expense.

Whether people think that would have been worth it to kick the can down the road a few more years is a matter for them.

 

[Ruairi77]

The withdrawal is all on Biden. You can't point at Trump on this when he's been President eight months and had every chance to stop this.

It's not like he's compelled to finish Trump's wall is it?

no, it's not. The US are honoring an agreement that Pompeo made with the Taliban 18 months ago (so much for not negotiating with terrorists).
If they renege on the deal the Taliban will go on the offensive and the war will continue.
Yes, the withdrawal could have been handled better but the whole process was put in place by trump who was looking for the optics going in to the election.
When that didn't happen, Afghanistan was ignored and no effort was made to ease the transition and help the Biden administration.
If Trump couldn't succeed at this he sure as hell wants Biden to fail. He's loving this because he's a world class scumbag.

 

[BlueTX]

The withdrawal is all on Biden. You can't point at Trump on this when he's been President eight months and had every chance to stop this.

It's not like he's compelled to finish Trump's wall is it?

Trump's wall isn't a thing. There's no agreement with anyone.

Trump drew down troop levels from 13,000 to 2,500 and agreed to release 5,000 Taliban fighters with an expected US withdrawal by May. From the date of that agreement between the Trump Administration and the Taliban exactly *zero* special visas were processed to allow for Afghans to leave the country. If Biden goes back on the agreement, the US is then putting thousands more troops in country to deal with a pissed-off Taliban which had already ramped up their movement and clashes in the year+ since Trump's agreement.

As of just a moment ago, nearly 60,000 have been evacuated from Afghanistan.

Pictures/video on the teevee have been horrible. But those having a fit about policy and strictly blaming Biden are doing so purely for partisan reasons.

 

[Tubey]

All of the above, complete nonsense.

There was nothing stopping Biden from saying "right, we'll leave in 2022, we'll set up an evacuation process for any Afghan who wants to leave by the time we do" - he arbitrarily decided on being out by September 2021, that was 100% his call. He wasn't committed to leaving by anything Trump did, as evidenced by not leaving in May, it was in his power to move the deadline. All he had to do was commit troops as long as he wanted and there was nothing the Taliban could have done about it.

The irony of saying blaming Biden is done for 'partisan reasons' is absurd and as bad as the Trump MAGA loons deflecting any blame from him.

Biden could have evacuated civilians/refugees before the Armed Forces in the amount of time he wanted to take, be it a year, two years, whatever. He didn't; he pulled the rug under them and thousands will die because of his actions.

 

[roydo]

I am a simple sole. With no deep understanding of Afghan politics or tribal stuff.

But not leaving this at POTUS door is sommet I cant get. He made the decision.

 

[BlueTX]

All of the above, complete nonsense.

There was nothing stopping Biden from saying "right, we'll leave in 2022, we'll set up an evacuation process for any Afghan who wants to leave by the time we do" - he arbitrarily decided on being out by September 2021, that was 100% his call. He wasn't committed to leaving by anything Trump did, as evidenced by not leaving in May, it was in his power to move the deadline. All he had to do was commit troops as long as he wanted and there was nothing the Taliban could have done about it.

The irony of saying blaming Biden is done for 'partisan reasons' is absurd and as bad as the Trump MAGA loons deflecting any blame from him.

Biden could have evacuated civilians/refugees before the Armed Forces in the amount of time he wanted to take, be it a year, two years, whatever. He didn't; he pulled the rug under them and thousands will die because of his actions.

Yes. Strictly blaming Biden is done for partisan reasons. "Strictly" - you missed it or intentionally ignored it. I hope it is the former.

Further, you are ignoring there was a plan already in place with an expected departure date. Delaying for "a year or two" wasn't likely to be well received by the Taliban and would have necessitated, in every likelihood, additional US and coalition troops being deployed. That wasn't going to happen no matter how much you wish it to be so.

 

[Tubey]

Yes. Strictly blaming Biden is done for partisan reasons. "Strictly" - you missed it or intentionally ignored it. I hope it is the former.

Further, you are ignoring there was a plan already in place with an expected departure date. Delaying for "a year or two" wasn't likely to be well received by the Taliban and would have necessitated, in every likelihood, additional US and coalition troops being deployed. That wasn't going to happen no matter how much you wish it to be so.

I strictly blame him for the withdrawal. It's all on him what's happening right now in August 2021.

Biden had it within his gift to say no, Trump's plan isn't happening, we're doing this instead. Whether it'd be "well received" by the Taliban means the square sum of sod all, because if we evacuated in good time with good processes then we avoid the disaster we have now. We could have identified all at risk, got them out, and then merrily waved goodbye to the Taliban as the overwhelmed the Afghan army if they decided not to fight.

No, it's all on Biden because he had it within his power to not do what we're seeing right now, and refused to do it. 100% him. Not for partisan reasons, but because it's 100% his call to do this. Even now, with massive pressure from all allies, he's refusing to budge - that's not Trump.

 

[tsubaki]

All of the above, complete nonsense.

There was nothing stopping Biden from saying "right, we'll leave in 2022, we'll set up an evacuation process for any Afghan who wants to leave by the time we do" - he arbitrarily decided on being out by September 2021, that was 100% his call. He wasn't committed to leaving by anything Trump did, as evidenced by not leaving in May, it was in his power to move the deadline. All he had to do was commit troops as long as he wanted and there was nothing the Taliban could have done about it.

The irony of saying blaming Biden is done for 'partisan reasons' is absurd and as bad as the Trump MAGA loons deflecting any blame from him.

Biden could have evacuated civilians/refugees before the Armed Forces in the amount of time he wanted to take, be it a year, two years, whatever. He didn't; he pulled the rug under them and thousands will die because of his actions.

From "complete nonsense" to "there was nothing the Taliban could have done about it".

The Taliban could have done something about it - they could have started killing US, UK and NATO troops again, just as they did when the US, UK and NATO had far more strength in country than they did when Biden took over.

By all means criticize Biden for the nature of the withdrawal, but to say there would have been no consequences for delaying / rewriting / cancelling that deal Trump agreed to is an absolute lie. The consequences would have come home in boxes; they still might if our idiotic leadership keeps trying to pretend August 31st isnt a deadline in every sense of the word.

 

[peteblue]

…

I am a simple sole. With no deep understanding of Afghan politics or tribal stuff.

But not leaving this at POTUS door is sommet I cant get. He made the decision.

As he said “I am the President of the United States and the buck stops with me”. It’s the only thing regarding Afghanistan that he got right…..