A Case for the Defence

[bluewally]

So, we have finished 5th and 11th. I predicted 8th before this season with the goal of clearing out the deadwood and going for top 4 next season (likely finishing 4-6th).

Looking at the squad, he has basically changed the squad to look like this:

GK-- Robles
LB -- Baines / Oviedo / Garbutt
LCB -- Mori / Galloway
RCB -- Stones / Jagielka
RB -- Coleman
DM -- Barry / McCarthy
CM -- Besic
LW -- Cleverley
ACM -- Barkley / Tarashaj (summer)
RW -- Deulofeu / Lennon
CF -- Lukaku / Niasse

What can we see from this:

A-- This is a massive squad overhaul with 12 new players coming in as well as 3 more coming through (ignoring browning etc).

B -- The money spent is less that alot of other teams in the league including i think Stoke and Newcastle and massively affected by the lukaku fee.

C-- The defence with the exception of Mori for Jagielka has not been improved "yet" with the focus mainly on the midfield.

D--;Howard/Hibbert/Gibson/Osman/Pienaar/McGeady/McAleny/Kone/Mirallas will all likely be moved on in the summer after Naismith and Junior recent departures. Thats 11 down to 9 players still needing shifting, it cant be good for morale to have all these players in the squad but not able to be moved on.

E-- League position can usually be calculated in terms of wages as a benchmark. This showed us "overachieving" before under Moyes. However i wonder how we will look once the 9 squad players are removed and if we are over or underachieving?

F-- Martinez has changed the playing style but also the culture of the club, if you want to be the new barcelona it doesnt take a couple of seasons...it takes a few years and money. Even if you look at wenger, he had the anelka transfer fee along with a top keeper and several more players at their peak but spent big money on stars, Martinez has only bought one star at big money.

G -- For his system to work it needs players throughout the squad to know their jobs and have great technical ability. Clearly hes improving the squad step by step with the money he has and spending on quality and a mix of stopgap signings. Now with more money he can improve the quality in a few more areas.

H -- He has improved every player he has signed. He also has improved the value of the squad by well over £100mil. When he has money he spends it on quality and we should expect the same this summer.

If he is given the summer and sizeable funds (£50mil tv money and moshiri cash) he logically will add top quality and also improve the value of the squad. If by Xmas he isnt performing around 4-6th then he will leave the next manager a great platform.

I -- The players who fans are afraid of leaving such as Barkley, Lukalu and Deulofeu have already said they are happy and looking forward to mext season with us. The only one left is stones who may leave anyway or may stay if he sees signings being made.

Im not sure what people expect in terms of this massive overhaul of the club but im happy with the long term outlook and aee no risk keeping him till at least xmas.

You've posted this before and to be honest all you are doing is making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as facts. Doesn't make them true.

Example "Barkley, Lukalu and Deulofeu have already said they are happy and looking forward to mext season with us"

What's the source for this?

Improved the squad by 100m. Please explain?

Mori is a replacement for distin not jags

 

[mkrudden]

We've got money now.
Let him spend some.
Then judge him.

 

[McBain]

So, we have finished 5th and 11th. I predicted 8th before this season with the goal of clearing out the deadwood and going for top 4 next season (likely finishing 4-6th).

Looking at the squad, he has basically changed the squad to look like this:

GK-- Robles
LB -- Baines / Oviedo / Garbutt
LCB -- Mori / Galloway
RCB -- Stones / Jagielka
RB -- Coleman
DM -- Barry / McCarthy
CM -- Besic
LW -- Cleverley
ACM -- Barkley / Tarashaj (summer)
RW -- Deulofeu / Lennon
CF -- Lukaku / Niasse

What can we see from this:

A-- This is a massive squad overhaul with 12 new players coming in as well as 3 more coming through (ignoring browning etc).

B -- The money spent is less that alot of other teams in the league including i think Stoke and Newcastle and massively affected by the lukaku fee.

C-- The defence with the exception of Mori for Jagielka has not been improved "yet" with the focus mainly on the midfield.

D--;Howard/Hibbert/Gibson/Osman/Pienaar/McGeady/McAleny/Kone/Mirallas will all likely be moved on in the summer after Naismith and Junior recent departures. Thats 11 down to 9 players still needing shifting, it cant be good for morale to have all these players in the squad but not able to be moved on.

E-- League position can usually be calculated in terms of wages as a benchmark. This showed us "overachieving" before under Moyes. However i wonder how we will look once the 9 squad players are removed and if we are over or underachieving?

F-- Martinez has changed the playing style but also the culture of the club, if you want to be the new barcelona it doesnt take a couple of seasons...it takes a few years and money. Even if you look at wenger, he had the anelka transfer fee along with a top keeper and several more players at their peak but spent big money on stars, Martinez has only bought one star at big money.

G -- For his system to work it needs players throughout the squad to know their jobs and have great technical ability. Clearly hes improving the squad step by step with the money he has and spending on quality and a mix of stopgap signings. Now with more money he can improve the quality in a few more areas.

H -- He has improved every player he has signed. He also has improved the value of the squad by well over £100mil. When he has money he spends it on quality and we should expect the same this summer.

If he is given the summer and sizeable funds (£50mil tv money and moshiri cash) he logically will add top quality and also improve the value of the squad. If by Xmas he isnt performing around 4-6th then he will leave the next manager a great platform.

I -- The players who fans are afraid of leaving such as Barkley, Lukalu and Deulofeu have already said they are happy and looking forward to mext season with us. The only one left is stones who may leave anyway or may stay if he sees signings being made.

Im not sure what people expect in terms of this massive overhaul of the club but im happy with the long term outlook and aee no risk keeping him till at least xmas.

J --

 

[bluewally]

Additionally, if were looking at top 6 and signing comparative players to the other teams with the aim of top 4 then we will need:

GK -- £20mil+ (De Gea /Lloris values)
CB -- £20mil+ (Romagnoli /Lovren values)
CM -- £25mil+ (Top level value)
LW -- £25mil+ (Yarnolenko fee)
CF -- £20mil+ (Embolo or similar value)

Thats £100mil+ simply looking at buying in players to complete the squad (ignoring RB backup) at a high enough level to compete with the top 4.

Of course Martinez can pull out some top signings for much less such as Deulofeu, Besic and Mori but these types take time to adapt and develop.

Spurs have depth and quality in their spine but were meant to be competing with them(?) Man utd have spent £250mil and yet we are supposed to be above them(?) Arsenal and Chelsea always finish strong and have spent fortunes as well as Man City....

Once we improve key positions (and dont forget we need to replace Jags and Barry soon) then when our squad can compare it still wont have the experience of playing together like the others do.

Patience is needed.

Most of this squad have played together for 3 seasons. How much experience do they need.

We have one of the top strikers in the league but ignore that.

Spurs manager has provided a team playing exciting attacking football with a mix of young and experienced players in 18 months of playing together.

But apparently that's impossible to do according to Bobby because young players can't win.

Nobody is saying we are in a position yet to compete with the sky 4 usually. But 2 of those 4 have underachieved significantly and we should have been taking advantage of that as Leicester Spurs and West Ham are. But we are in 12th.

There is no sign of improvement. The man is a glorified scout

 

[Zatara]

You've posted this before and to be honest all you are doing is making a lot of assumptions and presenting them as facts. Doesn't make them true.

Example "Barkley, Lukalu and Deulofeu have already said they are happy and looking forward to mext season with us"

What's the source for this?

Improved the squad by 100m. Please explain?

Mori is a replacement for distin not jags

Quotes from those players are available on google and have been posted on here before, lukaku's 2-3 weeks ago.

£100mil+ has easily been added to the value of the squad since he has taken over. Look at the plsyers market values.

Yourr right Mori / Distin.

 

[kev]

Games under Moyes at Goodison were a much more pleasurable watch than under Martinez because we actually won more than 4 games a year.

I understand the passion, but don't re-write history.
For those that just tune their TV in to watch 'final score' then yes, times were much more pleasurable under Moyes (than last season & this)
If you genuinely think that "Games under Moyes at Goodison were a much more pleasurable watch" then you either have a very short memory or no appreciation of the game.
Yes, results are what count in the grand scheme of things and if results don't improve then Martinez has to go but I personally would give him one more full season.

Oh, and if you know your history - Under intense 'fan' pressure, Howard Kendall was on the verge of being sacked in 1984.
Perhaps you were amongst those scrawling graffiti over his house and garage ?

For those saying that "we need to bring in a manager with a proven track record at a high level".
How much of a dramatic improvement have you noticed at Man Utd or the sh*te ?

 

[bluewally]

Quotes from those players are available on google and have been posted on here before, lukaku's 2-3 weeks ago.

£100mil+ has easily been added to the value of the squad since he has taken over. Look at the plsyers market values.

Yourr right Mori / Distin.

Strange I haven't seen any such quotes.

Market values where? Championship manager?

 

[Zatara]

Most of this squad have played together for 3 seasons. How much experience do they need.

We have one of the top strikers in the league but ignore that.

Spurs manager has provided a team playing exciting attacking football with a mix of young and experienced players in 18 months of playing together.

But apparently that's impossible to do according to Bobby because young players can't win.

Nobody is saying we are in a position yet to compete with the sky 4 usually. But 2 of those 4 have underachieved significantly and we should have been taking advantage of that as Leicester Spurs and West Ham are. But we are in 12th.

There is no sign of improvement. The man is a glorified scout

How many of those players listed have played together for 3 seasons? You said "most" thats not true.

I also dont understand Spurs as an example...they already had a squad full of experience and quality before Poch took over,Martinez had an ageing squad with very little quality in depth by comparison which can be seen with the change over of players culminating in this summers clearout.

Look at ths depth they have compared to us as well as their wage bill which would dwarf ours this summer.

 

[Eric Djemba-Djemba]

I understand the passion, but don't re-write history.
For those that just tune their TV in to watch 'final score' then yes, times were much more pleasurable under Moyes (than last season & this)
If you genuinely think that "Games under Moyes at Goodison were a much more pleasurable watch" then you either have a very short memory or no appreciation of the game.
Yes, results are what count in the grand scheme of things and if results don't improve then Martinez has to go but I personally would give him one more full season.

Oh, and if you know your history - Under intense 'fan' pressure, Howard Kendall was on the verge of being sacked in 1984.
Perhaps you were amongst those scrawling graffiti over his house and garage ?

For those saying that "we need to bring in a manager with a proven track record at a high level".
How much of a dramatic improvement have you noticed at Man Utd or the sh*te ?

Watching Everton win is my idea of entertainment. So yes I do think that we were better to watch under Moyes at Goodison. We actually won home games.

 

[kev]

Watching Everton win is my idea of entertainment. So yes I do think that we were better to watch under Moyes at Goodison. We actually won home games.

You might just as well forget the match mate.
Just go in a minute or so before the final whistle. If we win, great, you have been entertained.

 

[Zatara]

Strange I haven't seen any such quotes.

Market values where? Championship manager?

Well if you havent seen any quotes i suggest doing some research which would serve you better for your own knowledge as opposed to the above comments.

If you dont understand market value of players increasing and are unable to use google then im not sure why yourd responding to my post other than to make yourself look foolish.

 

[Zatara]

We've got money now.
Let him spend some.
Then judge him.

Weve spent less than newcastle but i think weve gained their fanbase.

 

[bluewally]

How many of those players listed have played together for 3 seasons? You said "most" thats not true.

I also dont understand Spurs as an example...they already had a squad full of experience and quality before Poch took over,Martinez had an ageing squad with very little quality in depth by comparison which can be seen with the change over of players culminating in this summers clearout.

Look at ths depth they have compared to us as well as their wage bill which would dwarf ours this summer.

GK-- Robles
LB -- Baines / Oviedo / Garbutt
RCB -- Stones / Jagielka
RB -- Coleman
DM -- Barry / McCarthy
CM -- Besic
ACM -- Barkley
RW -- Deulofeu
CF -- Lukaku

All playing together 3 years except del but he has experience with the lads.

That's pretty much the core of our starting 11

 

[bluewally]

Well if you havent seen any quotes i suggest doing some research which would serve you better for your own knowledge as opposed to the above comments.

If you dont understand market value of players increasing and are unable to use google then im not sure why yourd responding to my post other than to make yourself look foolish.

Oh I've tried to find these quotes but they don't seem to exist

True Market value can only be established when a player is bought/sold. Anything else is guesswork

 

[bluewally]

Weve spent less than newcastle but i think weve gained their fanbase.

That's how to win a debate. Insult your opponents. Childish