How do you think CIS people felt about that?
About what you said. About what a complete stigma and unaccepting it was, about how it had to stay hidden, about how everyone knew the local "tranny" (forgive my language but I'm putting the situation back into it's recent and yet caveman days) and made fun of them and made them an outcast. About how some of them simply didn't try to be what they wanted to be and lived a suppressed life, or even worse took their own life.
It does, and as always with CA threads nobody will change another's opinion on a subject, but the bit in bold, why is that an issue? Isn't highlighting the issue a good thing?
@Kurt. Brilliant observations throughout
Nonsense! The media attention is driven by you lot.
, besides dickheads I never saw any hassle given - my bro used to have a customer in the red cross shop who was trans - guy who ran a bar - again it was looked upon by people i knew as a bit unusual/weird but whatever. That attitude was already a marked different to say that of the late 90s when they'd have gotten A LOT of abuse and likely physical violence on occasion. (A noticeable change that you never really noticed as it happened so to speak)Sorry mate, was in the middle of writing a very detailed response to what i was asked - thanks for the 'you lot' comment though.
I respect you for taking the time to write it, and to write it from personal experience. I agree with some points, and there are some grifters, people will grift at any given opportunity on any side of any debate. For me, I think all the publicity in the world is a good thing, trying to make people feel safe and content in their lives should be the goal of humanity. I also think if you're not arsed about it, don't be, literally just leave people be. I don't care for Liverpool FC but that club bombards every media outlet going, but they don't bother me.To a great degree yes it is, but it does come with drawbacks attached to it - imo mainly down to the speed and voracity it went from being a none issue (bad) to being a dominant issue in the media and cultural spaces (becoming an issue - good, becoming such a dominant issue - drawbacks)
Can only give my own opinion on such matters and what and why I think certain things became counter productive.
So will probably bore everyone (again) with a relatively long post using myself as an example - I moved here in 2013 - when I left the UK I'd say the gay rights movement had pretty much come close to running it's course, it had become part of mainstream culture and to the vast majority just an acceptable part of society - a very good thing imo.
Trans, or gender identity was honestly not something people even thought about and certainly was no more than a fringe element kinda attached to the movement for gay rights. A pronoun was a pronoun etc. did people know trans people - some did, the Hanover had a batman who on his days off would come in fully 'tarted' up having a beer - he scrubbed up ok tbf
At some point after I moved, something seemed to changed and the idea of gender very much started spreading in the media and cultural spaces, first slowly then it exploded - why did it, I'm unsure, I do suspect that a lot of activists attached to achieving gay rights looked around and found this as the next great cause (some genuine (good), some because they were now kinda left as spare wheels - rebels without a cause so to speak).
I saw the gay rights movement fight over a period of my lifetime for acceptance and equality - went on a gay rights march back in London in 'i think' 96' also did an aids awareness march around the same time, as both causes obviously supported each other and had crossover of interests.
It took many many years, but eventually it got there (way too long), and it's an issue that effects society hugely, as the percentage of the population who are this is actually quite sizeable overall.
Now back to 2014-, the speed it went from a none/fringe issue is like nothing I've seen before, fueled by social media EVERYBODY almost had to have a firm opinion on the subject, with that it started and very quickly became polarising and I believe a lot of people went into the negative camp due to this aggressive pushing for instant acceptance, take a look now at pronoun virtue signalling on profiles about being almost a badge saying 'I'm in this tribe - if you don't show your pronoun your a transphobe'.
When anything gains such traction so quickly it attracts bad actors to the cause - and I do believe some of the advocates in this field do much more harm than good - but for some this is their entire career or existence (the so called social warrior or professional advocate).
And like with anything that goes to becoming almost the new cool group to be a part of, then I feel it can become attractive to those who feel they are different but don't know why - a huge amount of teenagers go through that normal phase of development and I genuinely feel a lot of the identifying as a different gender has now become almost a badge to show how cool you are, much like past movements drew in a lot of people who weren't really genuinely of that. It's the herd mentality at work, or the madness of crowds etc.
The hippy movement, BLM, I'll put the MAGA lot in this thing too hell it's a footy forum but can see it in foreign supporters of LFC and the way they behave to bring a footy analogy home.
And with this you have the polarising sector, if you aren't with us you are against us, and that gets seized on by the bad actors on the other side, twisted, warped and then used as a weapon against ALL trans or none binary identifying people activists and supporters.
With that you now have a situation that doesn't be one a slow accents ce but a crusade warred by two sides who frankly hate each other (at least the ring leaders of both certainly do) and that entrenches both camps further still due to the vitriol.
Does someone like Matt Walsh want a genuine debate over certain issues, ofc he doesn't his entire person's is built about being a steadfast hater if all things not normal as he's phrase it. But do the people screaming abuse in aggressive crowds protesting him do the cause any good, nope quite the opposite as they appear deranged and feed his lies. Further compounding the situation. Similarly those who berate others for having a personal opinion that differs dont do the cause whichever side they are on any good either.
Anyways I've rambled on with this and kinda lost where I was heading and my train of though.
So I'll finish up with my own personal take on everything.
Should someone who identifies as different to how they were born be accepted and given every right they originally had, ofc they should be. Free of discrimination and accepted for who they are.
Should this be pushed as a good thing to be - no it shouldn't, should it demonized - never.
Should it be going into schools - nope, it's not for a school system to promote any ideology, I'd criticise any school teaching it's wrong or bad as well. Schools should not be a place for presenting/educating on any subject like this.
Does the community representing them need to genuinely confront some of the 'problem' issues with reason - yes it does, examples of this is participation in sport - one that the women's rights movement should also be involved in, the prison system, things like access to women or men only facilities etc, all these are genuine areas that need to be discussed like adults. Doing so removed much if the fuel for the fire.
Do celebrities need to stfu in the subject, most definitely yes, most are idiots in pretty much everything, their opinion and virtue signalling is just that, yes we get it Angelina Jolie you have a trans child that identified as that at 2 and you since then have never stopped going on about it, it comes across as another way of putting the spotlight on yourself and not genuine. Meanwhile those actually struggling get zero attention - a lad or lass from Bootle going through this is gonna face something completely different to the 'reality' a child of an A lost Hollywood celeb will face growing up in that bubble.
Do I think more should be getting done to see if a child identifying is just going through childhood with it's already confusing changes without pressure - yup. Don't think this is a thing that until you are 16-18 should ever be getting progressed to the level of medical experts etc.
Do I think the LGBT community should look at the ever expanding group of letters and think, does this really serve anyone's cause and does it not just create almost a ready made point of attack from opponents, on this topic every gay person i know thinks it's gotten ridiculous btw.
Do people need to start listening to the genuine reasons me voices in the community rather than the ones with the loudest voices or biggest media profiles, yes, is part of this do media need to start utilizing these voices more rather than the most controversial voices, yes, on both sides
Do people need to actually properly read up on this subject and think for themselves, hell yes they do.
Do people need to judge a person on who they are and their character rather than on a label - yes, for good or for bad
Do all the people involved in this in order to make money need to be thrown into the bin, yup one million percent,
Do the crazies on both side, be they a 'gender specialist' whose entire career is founded on this, or a YouTube guy whose entire career is based upon being opposed to this all need to get 'blanked' out the conversation, yup they do most definitely.
Anyway anyone wading through all this deserves respect just for persistence, so cheers
I just wrote a huge reply that deleted itself when my phone went weird.
To a great degree yes it is, but it does come with drawbacks attached to it - imo mainly down to the speed and voracity it went from being a none issue (bad) to being a dominant issue in the media and cultural spaces (becoming an issue - good, becoming such a dominant issue - drawbacks)
Can only give my own opinion on such matters and what and why I think certain things became counter productive.
So will probably bore everyone (again) with a relatively long post using myself as an example - I moved here in 2013 - when I left the UK I'd say the gay rights movement had pretty much come close to running it's course, it had become part of mainstream culture and to the vast majority just an acceptable part of society - a very good thing imo.
Trans, or gender identity was honestly not something people even thought about and certainly was no more than a fringe element kinda attached to the movement for gay rights. A pronoun was a pronoun etc. did people know trans people - some did, the Hanover had a batman who on his days off would come in fully 'tarted' up having a beer - he scrubbed up ok tbf
At some point after I moved, something seemed to changed and the idea of gender very much started spreading in the media and cultural spaces, first slowly then it exploded - why did it, I'm unsure, I do suspect that a lot of activists attached to achieving gay rights looked around and found this as the next great cause (some genuine (good), some because they were now kinda left as spare wheels - rebels without a cause so to speak).
I saw the gay rights movement fight over a period of my lifetime for acceptance and equality - went on a gay rights march back in London in 'i think' 96' also did an aids awareness march around the same time, as both causes obviously supported each other and had crossover of interests.
It took many many years, but eventually it got there (way too long), and it's an issue that effects society hugely, as the percentage of the population who are this is actually quite sizeable overall.
Now back to 2014-, the speed it went from a none/fringe issue is like nothing I've seen before, fueled by social media EVERYBODY almost had to have a firm opinion on the subject, with that it started and very quickly became polarising and I believe a lot of people went into the negative camp due to this aggressive pushing for instant acceptance, take a look now at pronoun virtue signalling on profiles about being almost a badge saying 'I'm in this tribe - if you don't show your pronoun your a transphobe'.
When anything gains such traction so quickly it attracts bad actors to the cause - and I do believe some of the advocates in this field do much more harm than good - but for some this is their entire career or existence (the so called social warrior or professional advocate).
And like with anything that goes to becoming almost the new cool group to be a part of, then I feel it can become attractive to those who feel they are different but don't know why - a huge amount of teenagers go through that normal phase of development and I genuinely feel a lot of the identifying as a different gender has now become almost a badge to show how cool you are, much like past movements drew in a lot of people who weren't really genuinely of that. It's the herd mentality at work, or the madness of crowds etc.
The hippy movement, BLM, I'll put the MAGA lot in this thing too hell it's a footy forum but can see it in foreign supporters of LFC and the way they behave to bring a footy analogy home.
And with this you have the polarising sector, if you aren't with us you are against us, and that gets seized on by the bad actors on the other side, twisted, warped and then used as a weapon against ALL trans or none binary identifying people activists and supporters.
With that you now have a situation that doesn't be one a slow accents ce but a crusade warred by two sides who frankly hate each other (at least the ring leaders of both certainly do) and that entrenches both camps further still due to the vitriol.
Does someone like Matt Walsh want a genuine debate over certain issues, ofc he doesn't his entire person's is built about being a steadfast hater if all things not normal as he's phrase it. But do the people screaming abuse in aggressive crowds protesting him do the cause any good, nope quite the opposite as they appear deranged and feed his lies. Further compounding the situation. Similarly those who berate others for having a personal opinion that differs dont do the cause whichever side they are on any good either.
Anyways I've rambled on with this and kinda lost where I was heading and my train of though.
So I'll finish up with my own personal take on everything.
Should someone who identifies as different to how they were born be accepted and given every right they originally had, ofc they should be. Free of discrimination and accepted for who they are.
Should this be pushed as a good thing to be - no it shouldn't, should it demonized - never.
Should it be going into schools - nope, it's not for a school system to promote any ideology, I'd criticise any school teaching it's wrong or bad as well. Schools should not be a place for presenting/educating on any subject like this.
Does the community representing them need to genuinely confront some of the 'problem' issues with reason - yes it does, examples of this is participation in sport - one that the women's rights movement should also be involved in, the prison system, things like access to women or men only facilities etc, all these are genuine areas that need to be discussed like adults. Doing so removed much if the fuel for the fire.
Do celebrities need to stfu in the subject, most definitely yes, most are idiots in pretty much everything, their opinion and virtue signalling is just that, yes we get it Angelina Jolie you have a trans child that identified as that at 2 and you since then have never stopped going on about it, it comes across as another way of putting the spotlight on yourself and not genuine. Meanwhile those actually struggling get zero attention - a lad or lass from Bootle going through this is gonna face something completely different to the 'reality' a child of an A lost Hollywood celeb will face growing up in that bubble.
Do I think more should be getting done to see if a child identifying is just going through childhood with it's already confusing changes without pressure - yup. Don't think this is a thing that until you are 16-18 should ever be getting progressed to the level of medical experts etc.
Do I think the LGBT community should look at the ever expanding group of letters and think, does this really serve anyone's cause and does it not just create almost a ready made point of attack from opponents, on this topic every gay person i know thinks it's gotten ridiculous btw.
Do people need to start listening to the genuine reasonable voices in the community rather than the ones with the loudest voices or biggest media profiles, yes, is part of this do media need to start utilizing these voices more rather than the most controversial voices, yes, on both sides
Do people need to actually properly read up on this subject and think for themselves, hell yes they do.
Do people need to judge a person on who they are and their character rather than on a label - yes, for good or for bad
Do all the people involved in this in order to make money need to be thrown into the bin, yup one million percent,
Do the crazies on both side, be they a 'gender specialist' whose entire career is founded on this, or a YouTube guy whose entire career is based upon being opposed to this all need to get 'blanked' out the conversation, yup they do most definitely.
Anyway anyone wading through all this deserves respect just for persistence, so cheers
