Current Affairs 2017 General Election

[Tubey]

It isn't, though. Corbyn has been called a Marxist, and has said he admires Marx, but he has never come out and said "I am a Marxist", nor does a look at his politics over time suggest that he might be.

... because he's a politician who did what politicians do by dodging the label in an interview with Marr.

Boris Johnson doesn't have to say "I am a tit" to be a tit - he is one regardless. Same with Corbyn; he's blatantly a marxist; a follower of an ideology.

 

[Blues Harp]

... because he's a politician who did what politicians do by dodging the label in an interview with Marr.

Boris Johnson doesn't have to say "I am a tit" to be a tit - he is one regardless. Same with Corbyn; he's blatantly a marxist; a follower of an ideology.

May is also the follower of an ideology....the "Fe*k off you plebs I'm alright Jack" mentality

 

[Walken]

Erm... yes? What's your point?

Again, did you read what I said? I said the label itself isn't the issue; it's the negative connotation attached to it, if anything. You could say the same thing about "Tory".

I have, and I've enjoyed your backtracking immensely, skillfully done

 

[Tubey]

I have, and I've enjoyed your backtracking immensely, skillfully done

I really didn't though - I said the exact same thing no less than four times.

He's a marxist, that's not an issue in itself, the negative connotation is. Attack the media by all means for attaching that negativity, but the label itself is sound.

That's been the same thing I've said since the first post at 2:41pm.

 

[Blues Harp]

See that the pleb/pondlife that is nuttall is standing for MP in Lincoln as their footie team rejoined the EFL......"Ive always been an Imps fan" he lied

 

[Walken]

I really didn't though - I said the exact same thing no less than four times.

He's a marxist, that's not an issue in itself, the negative connotation is. Attack the media by all means for attaching that negativity, but the label itself is sound.

That's been the same thing I've said since the first post at 2:41pm.

excellent footwork, like a young davek

 

[tsubaki]

... because he's a politician who did what politicians do by dodging the label in an interview with Marr.

Boris Johnson doesn't have to say "I am a tit" to be a tit - he is one regardless. Same with Corbyn; he's blatantly a marxist; a follower of an ideology.

He isn't, though. He is a Bennite, with the same beliefs as Benn that the system can essentially be peacefully reformed from within and by democratic means. As @JimmyJeffers said earlier, actual Marxists would not recognize many of "their" policies in the Corbyn platform.

 

[bring the ghost on]

Corbyn is a Marxist. On it's own, that's a statement of fact, not an attack.

The trouble is that Marxism means different things to different people.

Does Corbyn ascribe to some aspects of classical Marxism (i.e. the fundamental principles that capitalist leads to exploitation and that the country should focus on the great good rather than the profit of a minority)? Yes.

Does Corbyn ascribe to the general principles of Marxism-Lenninism (i.e. that all industry and private property should be under state ownership and there should be a single government rather than a democracy)? No.

Does he believe in certain ideas in between, such as Nationalised health care, bringing vital services into the public sector and welfare? Yes.

He's not really too different to a lot of traditional Labour supporters in his beliefs really and it's pretty unhelpful to portray him as being a massive radical who is comparable to Lennin. He has admiration for Marx, but doesn't call himself a Marxist because that does not really truly reflect his set of believes - he is a social democrat really.

 

[Tubey]

The trouble is that Marxism means different things to different people.

Does Corbyn ascribe to some aspects of classical Marxism (i.e. the fundamental principles that capitalist leads to exploitation and that the country should focus on the great good rather than the profit of a minority)? Yes.

Does Corbyn ascribe to the general principles of Marxism-Lenninism (i.e. that all industry and private property should be under state ownership and there should be a single government rather than a democracy)? No.

Does he believe in certain ideas in between, such as Nationalised health care, bringing vital services into the public sector and welfare? Yes.

He's not really too different to a lot of traditional Labour supporters in his beliefs really and it's pretty unhelpful to portray him as being a massive radical who is comparable to Lennin. He has admiration for Marx, but doesn't call himself a Marxist because that does not really truly reflect his set of believes - he is a social democrat really.

Fair comments, but he's more of an actual Marxist than most Labour supporters, and that's all that practically matters - and why there's a gulf between his and his core supporters and the overwhelming majority of the country in terms of ideology.

I personally see him very much a Marxist - an advocate of class struggle, hidden under thin veneer of political skill. It's 2017, so it obviously isn't subject to the same definitions of yesteryear, but it's a form of the same thing.

It's like the Tories - they'll pretend to be compassionate (hug a hoodie etc.) but then the mask slips. Corbyn is simply the left wing version of the extreme right of the Tory party, and governed by ideology just as much.

http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-adviser-suspended-over-class-war-tweet-10340517

 

[Blues Harp]

bluecol Try debating not negging

 

[bluecol]

@bluecol Any chance you could engage in this thread and with the debate rather than neg everyone who can see May's party for the free-loading short-term scum that they are?

Engage in this thread? I've only been on this site for a couple of months, in which time I've posted 62 times. If posters can neg me then I'm free to do the same to them if I don't like their posts. Do you have a problem with that? There are people I disagree with but I would never call them scum, not my style,

 

[Tubey]

Engage in this thread? I've only been on this site for a couple of months, in which time I've posted 62 times. If posters can neg me then I'm free to do the same to them if I don't like their posts. Do you have a problem with that? There are people I disagree with but I would never call them scum, not my style,

But... you joined nine years ago mate!

 

[Blues Harp]

Fair comments, but he's more of an actual Marxist than most Labour supporters, and that's all that practically matters - and why there's a gulf between his and his core supporters and the overwhelming majority of the country in terms of ideology.

I personally see him very much a Marxist - an advocate of class struggle, hidden under thin veneer of political skill. It's 2017, so it obviously isn't subject to the same definitions of yesteryear, but it's a form of the same thing.

It's like the Tories - they'll pretend to be compassionate (hug a hoodie etc.) but then the mask slips. Corbyn is simply the left wing version of the extreme right of the Tory party, and governed by ideology just as much.

http://news.sky.com/story/corbyn-adviser-suspended-over-class-war-tweet-10340517

The tory right are far more dangerous than corbyn -he is just not an extremist left guy - unless you fear a center left government - Blair did F-All with a 179 majority but they were tory lite ..believe what you see in the tory BBC or Sky --Jesus Wept

 

[Blues Harp]

Engage in this thread? I've only been on this site for a couple of months, in which time I've posted 62 times. If posters can neg me then I'm free to do the same to them if I don't like their posts. Do you have a problem with that? There are people I disagree with but I would never call them scum, not my style,

OK why do you like the tory policies..and can you list them ? Thank you

 

[Tubey]

The tory right are far more dangerous than corbyn -he is just not an extremist left guy - unless you fear a center left government - Blair did F-All with a 179 majority but they were tory lite ..believe what you see in the tory BBC or Sky --Jesus Wept

Corbyn? Momentum? Centre-left?


... ok then!