Current Affairs 2017 General Election

[JonS]

A good read mate, but some paragraphs would have stopped my head from hurting x

Sorry mate. I'm not used to doing mass copy and pasting articles like Clint and Bruce lol

 

[Clint Planet]

15 times when Jeremy Corbyn was on the right side of history
Paul Simpson
The World Turned Upside Down
1. Apartheid:
Jeremy was a staunch opponent of the Apartheid regime and a supporter of Nelson Mandela and the ANC. He was even arrested for protesting outside the South African embassy in 1984.
2. Chile: Jeremy was an opponent of the brutal dictator Pinochet (an ally of the British government under Thatcher) and was a leading campaigner in the quest to bring him to justice. In 1998 Pinochet was arrested in London.
3. LGBT rights: As noted in Pink News, Jeremy was an early champion of LGBT rights. At a time when the Tories decried supporting LGBT rights as ‘loony left’, Jeremy voted against section 28 which sought to demonise same-sex relationships.
4. The Miners’ Strike: Jeremy went against the Labour leadership and fully supported the miners in their effort to prevent the total destruction of their industry and communities. Cabinet papers released last year prove that the NUM were correct to claim that there was a secret hit list of 75 pits which the government were determined to close within 3 years. Ex-mining areas still suffer from the devastating effects of de-industrialisation, particularly high unemployment.
5. Iraq: In the 1970s and 1980s, while the UK and other Western government were selling weapons to their ally Saddam Hussein, Jeremy campaigned and demonstrated against it, as well as protesting against the mass killings of Iraqi Kurds by Saddam’s regime.
6. Birmingham Six and Guildford Four: Jeremy was involved in the campaigns in support of the victims of these appalling miscarriages of justice. The wrongful convictions were eventually quashed.
7. Talking to Sinn Fein: In the 1980s, along with Tony Benn and other Labour MPs, Jeremy drew intense criticism for engaging in dialogue with Sinn Fein and inviting its representatives to the House of Commons. The government claimed it ‘would not talk to terrorists’ but we now know that by 1989, it was secretly engaged in talks. Sinn Fein has been a major party of the Northern Ireland government since 1998 and even the Queen and Prince Charles have now met with its leading figures.
8. Tuition fees: Jeremy opposed New Labour’s introduction of university tuition fees, which explicitly broke Labour’s 1997 election manifesto pledge, as well as all of the subsequent increases. Fees were then trebled under New Labour before being trebled again by the coalition government, leaving the average student in £53k of debt.
9. Private Finance Initiative (PFI): Jeremy argued against this method of funding the building of new schools and hospitals, which was used partly because New Labour had committed itself to Tory spending plans. Instead of financing projects through government borrowing, private finance would build the infrastructure and then lease to the government. PFI deals cost the taxpayer £10bn a year and we will end up paying more than £300bn for assets worth just £54.7bn.
10. Afghanistan: Going against the tide of political and public opinion in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, Jeremy opposed the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan in 2001. By 2009, most polls showed a majority of British people were against the war and Britain eventually withdrew its troops in October 2014.
11. Iraq, again: Jeremy saw through the ‘dodgy dossier’, the claims of weapons of mass destruction and campaigned and voted against the Iraq war in 2003. In doing so, he helped to organise the biggest demonstration in British history and remains a leading figure in the Stop the War Coalition.
12. Palestine: Jeremy has been a long-standing campaigner for the rights of the Palestinian people, beginning his advocacy at a time when Western public opinion was largely hostile to the Palestinian cause. Last year parliament overwhelmingly voted to recognise Palestine.
13. Public ownership of the railways: Jeremy has always advocated public ownership of our railways. The argument that privatisation would result in competition and thus lower fares has been proved to be entirely incorrect. Instead not only have fares rocketed year on year but the British taxpayer now subsidies the railways to the tune of £4bn a year, around four times the cost of the previous, publicly owned system.
14. Trident: Jeremy has been a long-term campaigner in CND, and has always opposed Britain having nuclear weapons – a difficult argument to make at the height of the Cold War. But now virtually all the polling evidence shows that a majority of people are against spending £100bn on a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons.
15. Austerity: Right from the beginning Jeremy argued and campaigned against austerity. Despite inheriting a situation where the economy was growing, Osborne’s austerity budgets plunged the UK into a double dip recession in April 2012 and by February 2013 Britain lost its AAA credit rating for the first time since the late 1970s. Five years of austerity later and the UK’s debt has actually risen from £1trn in 2010 to around £1.5trn today. The social cost has been shocking, leading to a rise in child poverty, an unprecedented fall in real wages and nearly 1 million people now reliant on food banks to name but a few of the dire consequences.

He's a loony, mate. And weak and ineffectual.

Or, at least, that's what the Establishment and MSM want you to think. And yet, when you really sit down and think about it - think about what he says, think about what's wrong right now, think about what the Tories really stand for, think about what you want a future Britain to look like, he might just be your man.

Don't believe the propaganda, people.

 

[bluecol]

There will be more than a few on here who hate Esther Mcvey, a scouser to her fingertips but who has committed the ultimate betrayal by being a Conservative. But in my view she is one of the very few politicians who speaks her mind without bothering what other people think. She is now set up to be an MP for the duration, one of the safest seats in the country and a sure base to have a glittering career in Government.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39723252

 

[Clint Planet]

There will be more than a few on here who hate Esther Mcvey, a scouser to her fingertips but who has committed the ultimate betrayal by......

....being a despicable, uncaring get.

 

[Kendall's Dream]

He's a loony, mate. And weak and ineffectual.

Or, at least, that's what the Establishment and MSM want you to think. And yet, when you really sit down and think about it - think about what he says, think about what's wrong right now, think about what the Tories really stand for, think about what you want a future Britain to look like, he might just be your man.

Don't believe the propaganda, people.

It's going to be great when he wins

 

[WycombeToffee]

15 times when Jeremy Corbyn was on the right side of history
Paul Simpson
The World Turned Upside Down
1. Apartheid:
Jeremy was a staunch opponent of the Apartheid regime and a supporter of Nelson Mandela and the ANC. He was even arrested for protesting outside the South African embassy in 1984.
2. Chile: Jeremy was an opponent of the brutal dictator Pinochet (an ally of the British government under Thatcher) and was a leading campaigner in the quest to bring him to justice. In 1998 Pinochet was arrested in London.
3. LGBT rights: As noted in Pink News, Jeremy was an early champion of LGBT rights. At a time when the Tories decried supporting LGBT rights as ‘loony left’, Jeremy voted against section 28 which sought to demonise same-sex relationships.
4. The Miners’ Strike: Jeremy went against the Labour leadership and fully supported the miners in their effort to prevent the total destruction of their industry and communities. Cabinet papers released last year prove that the NUM were correct to claim that there was a secret hit list of 75 pits which the government were determined to close within 3 years. Ex-mining areas still suffer from the devastating effects of de-industrialisation, particularly high unemployment.
5. Iraq: In the 1970s and 1980s, while the UK and other Western government were selling weapons to their ally Saddam Hussein, Jeremy campaigned and demonstrated against it, as well as protesting against the mass killings of Iraqi Kurds by Saddam’s regime.
6. Birmingham Six and Guildford Four: Jeremy was involved in the campaigns in support of the victims of these appalling miscarriages of justice. The wrongful convictions were eventually quashed.
7. Talking to Sinn Fein: In the 1980s, along with Tony Benn and other Labour MPs, Jeremy drew intense criticism for engaging in dialogue with Sinn Fein and inviting its representatives to the House of Commons. The government claimed it ‘would not talk to terrorists’ but we now know that by 1989, it was secretly engaged in talks. Sinn Fein has been a major party of the Northern Ireland government since 1998 and even the Queen and Prince Charles have now met with its leading figures.
8. Tuition fees: Jeremy opposed New Labour’s introduction of university tuition fees, which explicitly broke Labour’s 1997 election manifesto pledge, as well as all of the subsequent increases. Fees were then trebled under New Labour before being trebled again by the coalition government, leaving the average student in £53k of debt.
9. Private Finance Initiative (PFI): Jeremy argued against this method of funding the building of new schools and hospitals, which was used partly because New Labour had committed itself to Tory spending plans. Instead of financing projects through government borrowing, private finance would build the infrastructure and then lease to the government. PFI deals cost the taxpayer £10bn a year and we will end up paying more than £300bn for assets worth just £54.7bn.
10. Afghanistan: Going against the tide of political and public opinion in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, Jeremy opposed the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan in 2001. By 2009, most polls showed a majority of British people were against the war and Britain eventually withdrew its troops in October 2014.
11. Iraq, again: Jeremy saw through the ‘dodgy dossier’, the claims of weapons of mass destruction and campaigned and voted against the Iraq war in 2003. In doing so, he helped to organise the biggest demonstration in British history and remains a leading figure in the Stop the War Coalition.
12. Palestine: Jeremy has been a long-standing campaigner for the rights of the Palestinian people, beginning his advocacy at a time when Western public opinion was largely hostile to the Palestinian cause. Last year parliament overwhelmingly voted to recognise Palestine.
13. Public ownership of the railways: Jeremy has always advocated public ownership of our railways. The argument that privatisation would result in competition and thus lower fares has been proved to be entirely incorrect. Instead not only have fares rocketed year on year but the British taxpayer now subsidies the railways to the tune of £4bn a year, around four times the cost of the previous, publicly owned system.
14. Trident: Jeremy has been a long-term campaigner in CND, and has always opposed Britain having nuclear weapons – a difficult argument to make at the height of the Cold War. But now virtually all the polling evidence shows that a majority of people are against spending £100bn on a new generation of Trident nuclear weapons.
15. Austerity: Right from the beginning Jeremy argued and campaigned against austerity. Despite inheriting a situation where the economy was growing, Osborne’s austerity budgets plunged the UK into a double dip recession in April 2012 and by February 2013 Britain lost its AAA credit rating for the first time since the late 1970s. Five years of austerity later and the UK’s debt has actually risen from £1trn in 2010 to around £1.5trn today. The social cost has been shocking, leading to a rise in child poverty, an unprecedented fall in real wages and nearly 1 million people now reliant on food banks to name but a few of the dire consequences.

*On the right side of a heavily socialist version of history.

 

[tsubaki]

It's going to be great when he wins

I'd love to think that - but in the unlikely circumstance that he did win I think we would quickly find out that there isn't that much difference between us and Egypt. TBH I'd be amazed if the PLP even gave him enough support to go to the Queen and say he could form a government.

 

[Moomin]

*On the right side of a heavily socialist version of history.

Dont know about you mate but this is an Everton Forum in the socialist L4 part of the world.

Would'nt you be happier supporting Oxford with a doll of Maggie?

 

[tsubaki]

*On the right side of a heavily socialist version of history.

It isn't though, is it.

Apartheid was wrong. What happened in Chile under Pinochet was mass murder. What happened to LGBT people in this country was so bad that the word scandal doesn't even begin to cover it. They really did do horrible, long lasting damage to the miners and their communities simply because they tried to protect their jobs.

The then Government really did give Saddam a complete pass over Halabja and like atrocities, as well as not doing anything about him starting a war of aggression against Iran. The Birmingham Six / Guildford Four were innocent. He did invite Sinn Fein members to the Commons, all of whom had been screened by the security services - but then again at least one of them had just been elected as an MP so perhaps he had a right to be there in the first place.

Tuition fees really are loading many of the coming generation with tens of thousands of debt without any corresponding measures (ie: lower taxes) to reflect that they are competing against other people in the labour market without that crippling disadvantage. PFI is demonstrably economic idiocy, to the extent that even Boris saved money by getting rid of those he could.

Iraq really was a war of mindlessness, given that they had zero involvement in 9/11, no WMD programme worthy of the name and we had no real plan as to what to do with them after we had "won". Palestine genuinely is something worthy of attention; the failure of Israeli policy there has been so total that they have no idea what to do about Hamas, which is why the last few conflicts have left them (Hamas) stronger than they have ever been and why the loon element in Israeli politics is getting ever closer to supplanting the rational people who built that state and gave it the position it currently enjoys. The railways do cost more in subsidy now than they did under BR, especially BR under Thatcher (which for once was competently run) and there really is an awful amount of money wasted under the franchise system.

Even Trident is not the conclusive argument that people think it is. Almost everyone supports renewing the system, but rather fewer people know that its cost means that our conventional forces are much less capable than they should be (without it, and assuming that we kept all the Trident money for other naval things, we could probably afford at least two and probably three carrier groups on the US model), nor that rises in the cost of the replacement will mean that we have more cuts to our armed forces down the line (they are already talking about cuts to the Royal Marines). The government really has spent £555 billion pounds trying to balance a budget whilst also making swingeing cuts across the public sector.

The only one of JonS's 15 points you could plausibly question is Afghanistan, which after the refusal of the Taliban to hand Osama over (and their clear alliance with him) probably had to be attacked. That war was still handled abysmally, mind.

 

[WycombeToffee]

Dont know about you mate but this is an Everton Forum in the socialist L4 part of the world.

Would'nt you be happier supporting Oxford with a doll of Maggie?

Haha. Oxford are probably our biggest rivals down here. Would never dream of supporting them.

Also, I know it was just a joke, but I have every right to support Everton despite not being an L4 socialist. My Dad's side of the family are all working class Scousers (he grew up in Tuebrook), most of whom still live in the general area. I was brainwashed into supporting the Blues from a very young age. lol
I enjoy the debate on here anyway. It is always good to get a different perspective on current affairs, even if you disagree with it.

 

[JonS]

Getting back to the NHS and spending I'm surprised that we don't feature on the below. Good job in many ways since an awful lot of drugs don't work and just cause more health problems (yes I know. I'm being controversial...)

 

[WycombeToffee]

Getting back to the NHS and spending I'm surprised that we don't feature on the below. Good job in many ways since an awful lot of drugs don't work and just cause more health problems (yes I know. I'm being controversial...)View attachment 36462

Regardless of our general lowly opinion of it as a nation at the moment, the NHS is actually a very good service in comparison to many of the other world healthcare systems.
I was at a presentation recently where a medical student was discussing his report into the best solutions for the NHS crisis. He essentially concluded that the system is only perceived as failing to the extent it is because it sets itself such high standards for patient care and treatment. The NHS is still relatively successful, and comparitively cost efficient, especially when it comes to matters such as drugs. Or at least that was the impression I got.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That's as maybe, but are you saying that the chronic underfunding of the NHS by the Tories - with all its dreadful consequences - is justified by that, erm, "exploration"? Are you also happy to join Pete in completely ignoring the personal testimony of actual NHS workers when considering all of this?

And, trust me, it is not me who is politicising it.

Feel free to read the evidence submitted (https://www.parliament.uk/nhs-sustainability). There is 1,200 pages of it, from all across the NHS, from medical charities, universities, politicians and so on. I'd say it features plenty of testimony therefore from actual NHS people.

Having read many of the evidence sessions, and then the final recommendations, my personal view is that they don't go far enough in their recommendations, but as I said to Pete, when your existing funding struggles to do what's expected, it's incredibly difficult to do what's expected + reshape the service to something more suitable to the 21st century.

Of course, money can help with that, but there are also a whole lot of dysfunctionalities in the NHS that don't help. For instance the huge amount of variance between service in different parts of the country - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tackling-unwarranted-variation-in-healthcare-across-the-nhs - is something that is just down to management and staff delivery. For instance, NIHR are great at coming up with new ways of doing things, but there isn't a similar body helping to spread 'best practice' around the NHS.

Likewise, the accounting regulations trusts abide by is annual, which fails to encourage more longer-term investing. People sneer at the profiteering and short-termism of the private sector, but when you've got companies like Amazon, Alphabet and Tesla willing to invest for the super-long term, it's quite a stark contrast to the year by year outlook of the NHS, especially when it comes to investing for the future (as there is zero real incentive for the NHS to do so).

There is also the unfortunate situation that the vast majority of innovation comes from outside the NHS, yet the NHS is absolutely terrible at integrating those innovations into their services. The thing is, and this is what I mean by the politicisation of the NHS, the following statement is from the NHS itself, and one I fully agree with, yet I'm sure you can imagine Corbyn et al screaming about Tory privatisation.

"This is not to be confused with more competition or privatisation but open the mostly closed NHS market to a greater variety of skills and capabilities while maintaining the principles of the NHS."

All sorts of other things (as you can imagine in 1,200 pages of evidence from front line staff). I'll take that over a lone voice in a newspaper article though if you don't mind.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Getting back to the NHS and spending I'm surprised that we don't feature on the below. Good job in many ways since an awful lot of drugs don't work and just cause more health problems (yes I know. I'm being controversial...)View attachment 36462

There is an awful lot of potential for more personalised medicine, but to get there I think the NHS has to really move the needle with data, but the short-term nature of the institution makes that painfully hard. You can see the potential from the UK Biobank though, and that's a relatively small sample, both in terms of depth and breadth.

 

[Clint Planet]

Jeremy Corbyn election bid to promote ‘warmer’ style of leadership

Labour strategists take on Tory attacks and depict leader as willing to engage with ordinary people, in contrast to Theresa May




Jeremy Corbyn meets NHS nurses, student nurses and midwives on the campaign trail. Photograph: Stefan Rousseau/P


Rowena Mason and Jessica Elgot

Friday 28 April 2017 22.00 BSTLast modified on Friday 28 April 2017 23.55 BST

Jeremy Corbyn will directly address his own leadership qualities for the first time in the election campaign, as Labour strategists seek to depict the party leader as warm and approachable in contrast to Theresa May’s controlled and distant campaign so far.

The Labour leader will tackle the issue head on following a series of personal attacks from Theresa May and Boris Johnson. The latter earlier this week branded Corbyn not just a “mutton-headed mugwump” but a danger to security.

It is understood that in a speech in east London on Saturday, Corbyn will make the case that he will be a different type of prime minister, as a leader who is willing to engage with ordinary people.

On Friday, in a foretaste of his speech, Corbyn said May had been hiding from the public and showing contempt for them, after it emerged she gave a rally at a business centre in Leeds in front of cheering activists only after workers had gone home for the day.

May has been repeating a stock phrase about her own “strong and stable leadership” at every opportunity, while claiming Corbyn is a “risk to the country and the economy”. A number of Labour MPs have avoided putting Corbyn on their election leaflets because May has a personal lead in the polls, preferring to emphasise the party’s policies and role as an opposition.

But aides to the Labour leader believe the public will be won round the more they are exposed to Corbyn’s warmer and more collegiate style as the Conservatives seek to make the campaign all about May’s image as prime minister.

Corbyn will also stay away from personal attacks on May, even though she has repeatedly attacked him, believing this is another dividing line between his own approach and that of the Tories. In a bid to make the election about principles, Labour will try to stress Corbyn’s record of being on the right side of arguments in the past, including the Iraq war, the dominance of the banks that led to the financial crisis, privatisation within the NHS, the private-finance initiative (PFI) and the sale of council housing that contributed to the housing crisis.

During his campaign event in London, Corbyn will frame the general election as one that will “define our times” more than any other because of the Conservative approach to Brexit.

“Make no mistake, a Brexit for the few is now brewing,” he will say. “One where any money saved is handed out as tax cuts to the super-rich and their corporations. Where new trade deals with the US and elsewhere are used to drive down our working conditions, and environmental and food standards.”

He will argue that the Conservatives’ friends and backers are unlikely to suffer when things go wrong with May’s version of Brexit as wages slide and jobs become even less secure.

Corbyn will go on to issue a plea for people to register to vote by 22 May, especially younger people who are usually less likely to sign up or cast their ballot on the day.

Younger voters are more likely to back Labour, according to opinion polls, with the latest Guardian/ICM poll showing a strong lead for the party with 18- to 24-year-olds and level-pegging with the Conservatives among 25- to 34-year-olds.

“Over 2.4 million young people are missing from the UK’s electoral register. Barely 40% of 18- to 24-year olds turn out to vote,” Corbyn said. “The Conservatives are more than happy with this state of affairs. Apathy and resignation will secure them seats on election day.

“It’s not that our young people don’t have the energy and talent to succeed. Our country is full of potential. But something hangs on peoples’ lips – though it typically goes unspoken. It’s the unheard story of why so many of us are scaling back our hopes and dreams in favour of just getting by. It’s the reason why this country is unable to unleash its potential.”


He will call on voters to not “let the Conservatives hold you back … [or] hold Britain back”.

May will hold a campaign rally of her own on Saturday, heading to Scotland in a sign the party is going after a handful of SNP seats. The Conservatives are expecting to outperform Labour north of the border, and will be targeting seats such as Moray, which is held by SNP leader Angus Robertson and has not been Tory since 1987.

At the rally, May is expected to say: “My message to the people of Scotland today is clear: if you vote for me it will strengthen my hand in the Brexit negotiations. It will strengthen the union, strengthen the economy and together the UK and Scotland will flourish. Because when Scotland is flourishing, the rest of the United Kingdom is flourishing too.”

Earlier, the prime minister was criticised for avoiding workers at a business centre in Leeds, as she claimed the Conservatives were a threat to seats in Labour’s northern and Midlands heartlands.

Rik Kendell, who is based in the building, said he had been looking forward to hearing May speak, though he said he was not a Conservative supporter.

“I found this deeply disappointing,” he told the Guardian. “I had no plans to vote for Mrs May but I’m well aware of the positive effect that seeing a speech in person from such a powerful, motivated public figure can have.

“I had a similar opportunity with both David Cameron and Gordon Brown when I worked in radio and it was very inspiring.”

Instead, he said, the visit occurred when none of the occupants were in the building, apart from some staff supervising the event. “There were no locals in the building other than some staff and an invited congregation of well-dressed Tories,” he said. “Harehills as a community was not represented or addressed.”

==============================================================



Ultimately, there is very little substance to Theresa May, though she certainly plays a good politicking game.